NO! I won’t shut up.

I am angry. I am so very angry. I woke up today to an absolute shit storm, and now people are saying, let’s just be quiet. Let’s accept it and move on. Let’s concentrate on what comes next. There is nothing we can do. There really isn’t any point in getting upset about it.

NO! There is a point. I AM ANGRY and I won’t let it go. Today I am ashamed of being British, and of being Welsh. And you know what, I think we NEED to be angry. We were not angry enough about this farce of a referendum before it happened, I damn well am not going to be quiet now.

Reasons I am angry.

1._Old people (specifically baby boomers) fucked us over, and they don’t have to deal with it for as long as we do. 

Yeah. I said it.

Yeah, I know, everyone gets a vote, but when my generation have to live with this shitty decision for another seventy bloody years, I think I am allowed to be angry. So I am going to keep shouting.

UPDATE: I think I angered a lot of the 33% who voted remain, and that was not my intention. This result was also down to education and poverty, but there IS a difference in age and votes. Nobody’s saying ALL baby boomers voted that way…but people still have the right to be angry about the 58%.

UPDATE 2: People are managing to pull these amazing percentages out of thin air of young people who haven’t turned up to vote. Thing is, I’ve looked for sources of these percentages, and the only real numbers I can find are from a census…in 2011. It is true that turnout was lower in the referendum in places where more young people live, but that is the only concrete evidence I can find. We cannot go on these 2011 census results, because far more people voted in this referendum than in previous elections.(The infographic above is from one of the most recent polls, but is still, I will be the first to admit, not concrete). But to the people suggesting I am putting all the blame on old people…please! There are nine other points on this post, and as in any election or referendum, I HATE that people are not using their vote. People have DIED to get us a vote. But this does not make my anger towards the trend that a recent poll has pointed towards any less valid.

2. The lies.

This was just the first of the lies the leave campaign have backtracked on today.

Oh wait, that looks like a big red bus, with, yep, £350 million to go to the NHS. Apart from the fact this was total crap from the start and anyone with a braincell could see it (I mean, seeing as the UK does get a lot of that money back, surely most of the £350 million would go to those areas that lost that money?), I am just angry that that turd faced moron had the cheek to sit there and defend it.

Another lie? Daniel Hannan retracts the claim that leaving the EU will reduce immigration. Yeah mate, I coulda told you that. So nope, still not shutting up.

3. The lack of information

Gove said Brexit would mean we wouldn’t have to follow EU regulations costing UK businesses £600 million a week. Third on that list – the Working Time Directive. The directive that means 1.7 million part-time women workers have a right to paid holiday. Either more lies, or we are moving backwards.

And as for Wales voting leave?

Congratulations Wales! You have put your trust in a Tory government who literally don’t give a fuck about you! How much money do you think Westminster will be sending your way? None! Say goodbye to good roads, free prescriptions and a load of jobs! Remember they did nothing when the steelworkers were under threat, they will do nothing when other jobs are under threat. You are idiots.

4. This was a Xenophobic Vote, or an ignorant one

“I don’t want to sound racist, but there’s just too many foreign people coming to this country,” was what one happy Brexiter told The Guardian on Friday.

 

Ok, so people say their vote was not racist. They based it on economic reasons (as the pound plummets), legal reasons (see point 3). That doesn’t mean that this shit isn’t happening out there today, because people have been told it is ok to act like that. And I am angry – this is not the UK I want to be part of. So I will not shut up.

5. Trump congratulated us on this vote.

Jesus, Britain. You need any more bloody clues on how bad an idea this is?

6. 52% is not a “clear majority.”

7. Our prime minister stepped down, leaving parliament in disarray and no clear plan for the future

“There is no need for a precise timetable today.” Actually fuckwit, yes there is. You knew that this was an option. It was a vote put to the people, a vote that could go one way or another. You should have had a clear timetable for both ways, we should have had a clear plan for the aftermath of this referendum.

8. Scotland might be leaving the UK

And who the hell can blame them?

9. People who voted were not given the facts- and now they regret their vote

“The facts are coming in now and our eyes are actually open,” she explained. “We’re actually seeing what’s happening.” Girl explaining how incredibly naive and gullible she was. But she wasn’t alone. The facts were just not given in this referendum, just jingoism and lies.

Source: (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/im-full-of-regret—extraordinary-moment-brexit-voter-changes-he/)

Yah fool! Another reason to stay angry, plus it leads me nicely onto…

10. We should never have had to vote in this referendum. The referendum should never have been a thing.

This became clear when google reported that “what does it mean if we leave the EU” becomes the most popular search…this morning.

😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡

I voted remain. And by being angry, I am showing Europe and the world that I do not agree. I do not agree with the racists who voted to get rid of immigrants. I never believed the lies UKIP and Farage and Boris told us.

But mostly, I am going to stay angry because it is my right.

And I will not leave it alone. Because I still care about my country. I can’t just up and leave (even though Canada does look really pretty), it wouldn’t be morally right. I was a part of this. I didn’t speak loud enough before. I may be one of the 48%, but I don’t get to shove this onto someone else. I am responsible.

And so I have to stay, and stay angry, to be sure that moving forward, we make the right decisions.

HI! I wrote another blog post. I would love it if you could read, comment and share! https://eleanorstclair.wordpress.com/2016/06/26/if-you-think-angers-over-think-again/

 

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673 thoughts on “NO! I won’t shut up.

    1. Well now – us baby boomers developed all you argogant Gen x y and z whatever’s have. Give the way you are spitting the Dummy you appear to be beyond achieving anything constructive. Believe it or not our vote still, yes even in post Europe Britain, counts as much as yours.
      Stop thinking about yourself but think of U.K. Sovereignty

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      1. UK sovereignty? That absolute power? Are you serious? What a joke. I believe it’s about time our wonderful society that typically benefits only the few, fell apart and rebuilt something new before riots do it for us. This sovereignty isn’t something I’d be stupid enough to fight for, die for, or even dream about bringing kids in to. Christ.

        I’m glad I was born and continue to live in age that isn’t as disillusioned as yours.
        Our country was never great. It was a disgusting, humanity-draining, aristocratic joke.. And now we, the people, are up shit street even more because the older gen voted to get rid our paddles.

        Great stuff.

        Go back to watching the BBC, and to your delusional stance on sovereignty.

        God kill the queen.

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      2. Dear Kay Store,

        We have to pay your fat pensions. You ought to remember that. We will be working longer and with no prospects of the kinds of pensions baby boomers are soaking up, unless things change. You may end up choking on our precious sovereignty before all is said and done.

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      3. Actually you baby boomers didn’t really do much, except hang onto the coat tails of those who fought for Europe during WWII. Of course then some of you brought up how those, the members of what was called the greatest generation died to save this country. You were simply lucky to have been born after the war, when you could benefit from the rebuilding that was happening here. Let me guess you probably think a lot of good men and women died to save this country.

        Except they didn’t die to save this country from an invading horde of Nazi’s, they died outside of our borders. They died in France, liberating it. They died in Germany freeing it from the yoke of fascism. They sacrificed themselves in Europe, not for the interests of Britain but for the salvation of the continent. Now fascism has returned and you, who grew up in the post war era, who benefited from that sacrifice have betrayed their memory by welcoming it back into this country because you are afraid of johnny foreigner.

        We tried to tell you the facts, but you preferred to get them from the Daily Mail, a newspaper so chock full of British values it’s headquarters is registered a long way from the UK, and which spoke out in favour of that Hitler fellow. You voted for the side who said that, people are sick of listening to experts, I hope you take that to heart and then when you start to feel a bit peaky, which being old you likely will, don’t go to the Doctor who is an expert in medicine but instead go to the local idiot (if you can’t find the local idiot, try looking in the mirror).

        We pretty much told you what would happen, you said we were scaremongering, then it did happen, you still say we’re scaremongering though. Which just tells me you’ve buried your head in the sand. I was even told that the recent surge in racism would just ‘blow over’.

        The side you voted for don’t have a plan on what to do they haven’t put forward a clear statement on what is going to happen and when. They’ve left you in limbo, because they had no idea, you also didn’t ask them for a plan. That isn’t going to make Britain great, it’s going to destroy it. You’ve set out on a grand expedition without any maps, planning or supplies and didn’t listen to us when we tried to tell you to think about what you are proposing.

        The seeds are already sown, the pound is falling, the stock market shrinking, companies have announced hiring freezes, some companies are considering reducing their workforce because they used to trade in Europe and now that our position is uncertain they are losing business, racial abuse is returning and a lot of those who voted to Remain in Europe are looking for ways in which they can do that, by leaving this country.

        The other problem I have is the figures were too close and the choice too binary, 52-48. This means that 48% don’t get a say in the direction their country will take and how it will act in Europe. A division of 4% is not overwhelming. It’s narrow and if you ignore the 48% if you just say our voice doesn’t matter, why should we stay in a country that no longer represents the one I want to live in. I voted remain for a stronger and better Britain. But if Britain falls, my choice will be to leave it and to leave you.

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    2. Exit polls conducted at the polling stations. Each party/group is allowed to ask how an individual voted. The individual is entitled to tell them to “fuck off”. Results are then extrapolated from the answers given, if any. Local parties also spend a lot of time on the phone in any election “getting the vote out”‘ those figures are then collated centrally. Opinion pollsters also spend a lot of time with identified focus groups. People who are willing to share their views. A sample of more than 1000 people is considered statistically accurate.

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      1. I agree with every word written here, I cannot believe that people still voted leave on the basis of the £350m claim. Gullible and have chosen to believe media rhetoric – for those that did their research and thought carefully about the vote, its utterly galling….Im very embarrassed to be English right now and the rise in racial abuse is horrific

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  1. Good, don’t shut up, this too important and NOT something we should accept, l am embarrassed to be part of this country and ashamed that a ludicrous decision has been made which will be detrimental to the young people of this country, messages of discontent need to be expressed loud and clear.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. A ludicrous decision? Everyone has a right to vote whichever opinion they hold. What makes you think you are right and the leave vote is wrong. Do you know something that everyone else doesn’t? It’s just like children throwing there dummies out of the pram when they don’t get their own way. You ought to feel ashamed acting like this just because it hasn’t gone the way you wanted.

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      1. The author has articulated why she believes her position to be correct. Please read the article. If you are able to clearly articulate why you disagree other than simply stating that the vote went your way then a conversation can happen. However, if you can’t be bothered to read and listen to the message above then critically assess the points, you have most likely proved her point and your vote was ill considered.

        Also, I think you meant ‘their’.

        Liked by 9 people

      2. They should have given 16yo the vote, it’s their future, why should anyone over 65yrs have the vote on such a huge matter, they’ve had their day, they can look back on an all too comfortable past..within Europe. A friend of mine was working at a polling station, listening to two old women, both over 80, both confessed that they hadn’t voted in years, but both thought this was worth lumbering up to vote for. Reminiscing about ‘how wonderful it would be to go back to the old days’…yes your right loves, two huge world wars, deaths by influenza, candles, Welsh not, no electricity, no NHS and drawing water from wells to name but a few. These people shouldn’t have had the vote, as it was not their right to dice with younger people’s future. Never mind ‘acting like this just because it hasn’t gone the way you wanted’ – you will probably be the first to complain if we have to go back to the dark ages once again!

        Liked by 3 people

      3. Oh please! It was a democratic vote – end of! Suggest you look up constitution – voting age is 18 until you die! God help us if 16-18 get the vote! Nothing against them but, that’s the point, they know nothing – they haven’t lived and think they can fix everything by moaning on social media!

        Liked by 1 person

      4. Linda do you have and suggestions for the future of England and Wales once Scotland and possibly Northern Ireland leave?
        Which one of your ‘out’ leaders will enact Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty? Boris Johnson? Nigel Farage? which one will pull the suicidal trigger? They appear to be backing away at the moment.
        Has anyone of these politicians come up with some sort of ‘out’ plan?
        How did you vote Linda with your brain or emotions. Can you in your wisdom if you used your brain suggest what might happen next? Yes you have the right to vote but vote for what exactly just Britain coming out of Europe and heading into the dark and break up of the UK?

        Liked by 1 person

  2. If you’re troubled by the elderly voting contrary to your position, how do you think native Britons feel about aliens and their descendants voting contrary to the interests of the British nation. Keep in mind that the left have flooded the West–not just Britain–with Third world detritus precisely for that reason, to achieve their political aims.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Wales has been flooded by immigrants for more years than anyone can remember, interfering with their culture, stifling development, curbing and belittling the use of our language, enslaving us to menial jobs, creaming the best for themselves and throwing us the crumbs with a ‘be thankful attitude. But then were not the only nation that it has happened to, look at how the Aborigines, India, Ireland, Scotland, Afghanistan the list is endless – now can you think who those immigrants are? I wonder?!!

      Liked by 2 people

    2. Who’s British nation, your white master race, the EDL/BNP/NF’s vision? My Britain is that which is is tolerant, embraces everything that is best from all of humanity. Your are the reason why the referendum was wrong. How do you think native Briton feel about nasty, xenophobic bigots like you. What do you think older people who lived through the last war feel when they realise the evil that members of their families died for still lives on in the likes of you?

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Bravo! I’m just reading through the comments….it’s like ALL the jobs the immigrants have control over are high end ones? Oh I’m sorry I didn’t realise that at 65 you’ve decided you wanted to be a doctor bit then found an immigrant had stolen that position!
        Ridiculous. I’m not British bit I consider it my second home. I did my MBA there I travel there frequently..basically contribute to its not topsy-turvy turvy economy.
        the thing now is that we (foreign investors) are picking even more and will do so due to what the vote has cause to the market! God no one said don’t let the elderly vote but as mentioned in the above article: it’s not your future. Anyway I really hope things settle and this stupid hate and racism stops

        Liked by 1 person

    3. You’re an excuse of a human being. Hiding behind your keyboard to write statements like this. By the way, the aliens (I’m assuming that’s how you’re referring to foreigners) could not vote in this election. They can pay tax, though, which contribute to the NHS (which is mainly staffed by said “aliens”), schools, councils etc. The world is changing and you have to accept that. I hope you don’t need one day to have your life saved by the detritus or their descendants that you’re referring to.

      Liked by 1 person

    4. Isn’t Avi a Jewish name? Because y’know they’ve been called a lot worse than third world detritus? Had worse done to them too.

      Also most of the native Britons died out, back when the Romans came and killed them. Then of course we had the Vikings, Normans, the Dutch, people from the various places we stuck flags in in the name of empire and then those who we let in because they were fleeing Nazi tyranny.

      Ethnically there isn’t such a thing as a native Briton, and it’s a good thing, because when you breed from a small pool, you tend to get a greater frequency of adverse results but you probably knew that already Avi.

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  3. Oh my your stress levels must be rocketing. If you don’t take a chill pill you won’t even live to be as old as one of us thick baby boomers. Do grow up and think. What is wrong with change. OK so it’s the unknown. It could be better than what we’ve got at the moment.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. That’s a bit of a punt. Based on events so far and the educated guesses of the experts who have insight into how the legal system works, specialism in economics and politics both Europe and world wide I’m not sure I’m going to take your bet.
      Sure, you probably think that by listening intently to Farage, Johnson, The Sun and Barry down the pub that you know more than all of these people, but given the stakes I would suggest that a vote to leave wasn’t as smart as you think.

      Liked by 5 people

  4. About time you grew up and accepted that the young do not always know best. Maybe and just maybe us that have seen more than you know better.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. My life experience has taught me that stupid young people grow to be stupid old people. Intelligence and intellect doesn’t come about with age. One may have more experience and some learn from these experiences but I know many stupid old people!

      Liked by 3 people

      1. Knowledge may well come with age and perhaps wisdom as well but if you are unintelligent at birth that will remain with you always. Once stupid always stupid!

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    2. yeah… maybe the old know better, but throwing random phrases doesn’t make his arguments less powerful. Old people do rarely know better. EVERY damn young person has more knowledge in their smarthphones than elderly will ever have.
      Everything he said was accompanied by facts and proofs.
      The time of the old is over.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. The time of the old is over??!

        Guess its the start of the self entitled younger generation then, those that think and believe they know best!

        Grow up- it was a vote and Leave won! It’s not like at school – moaning gets you know where!

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      2. I take great exception to your remark young man. Do you think older people don’t have smart phones or iPads then. You obviously have your head in yours too much. Get it out and look at the world. As an older person I’ve not only just done an on- line course on the EU but also actively use social media to blog my views in an intelligent way. Maybe one day you’ll grow wise too – unfortunately social media doesn’t do that!

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      3. Old people have had access to knowlege longer than all of you young people. We also use smart phones!! What you see on these gadgets we see also, of hadn’t that occurred to you?? And try not to forget, with reference to your comment ” The time of the old is over”, how long are you planning to stay young for? You will also reach the “Old” period in time. It’s not “if” just “when”!! Welcome to the real world!

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    3. That’s rich. The older generation have higher numbers and have dominated voting year on year since the younger generation has been alive. At what point do the younger generation get a say given we are already the first generation in history that is worse off than their parents?

      You really have to question the parenting, love or compassion any generation has that is willing to do away with services such as health, education and yes opportunities that you took for granted and enjoyed during your life time yet feel the generation following you should be deprived of for your own selfish uneducated fears. Unbelievable.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. ” generation has that is willing to do away with services such as health, education”. ” your own selfish uneducated fears”. How can be we be uneducated but be doing away with the education system that educated us?

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  5. Massive own goal honey. You can’t make vulgar comments complaining about being …… over by old people and then follow with your next outraged squeaking that people died to get you the right to vote. Its those same old people who were there watching their friends and family die for your rights. Or did you not realise that?

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    1. I think she was referring to people who fought for the franchise. This was given for the majority after ww1. Most of those veterans are now deceased. Others who fought more directly were the suffragists who fought for women’s votes. Equally, I feel duty bound to point out that Baby Boomers, by their very existence are post war children and have fought and died for no one.

      Liked by 4 people

    2. Do you realise that the old die and watched people die, to make this huge mistake happening?
      He has the right to be angry that most people used their vote to destroy the UK and and the british economy… a really good reason to die for :D.

      Liked by 1 person

    3. So you believe it is fine to do away with rights when you personally no longer need them. By the way, I am not far off from being a pensioner myself, and I have spent nearly my whole working life working with organisations that stand up for peoples’ rights.

      Out of interest, if the ball was on the other foot and we had a referendum that took away your right to a pension, you would be the first to complain wouldn’t you?

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  6. I’m glad you’re angry. I hope you stay angry. Try suffering with cancer and try getting an appointment with a doctor. I’m angry. I am also one of those who remembers when we were not in the eu we were our own boss and shaped our own destiny. I remember when we had an empire. When we owned major industry but since we went into Europe our govermments have sold them all off after running them down. Railway,steel, coal, post office, cotton, water. To name but a few.

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    1. I agree that it’s very sad that the railways, coal, steel etc. have been sold off but has that anything to do with the EU? I doubt it. And as for the empire, I’m afraid I think that the whole way the empire was gained was the height of arrogance. We have no right to take on other countries and tell them to follow our rules.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Yes agree. The same has happened in Australia and most other democratic countries. This is a failing of democracy and short sighted politicians only interested in re-election, nothing to do with being in or out of the EU.

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    2. If you have a life-threatening disease that is truly terrible. However, the EU did not cause diseases (although incidentally do fund research into medical advancement) and do not make doctors surgeries busy.
      The waiting times for patients in the NHS are not caused by immigrants. In fact, they are mainly brought down by immigrants who staff the NHS in areas where it is hard to recruit. For many years, there has been underinvestment in nurse training as part of efficiency savings that have been pushed on the NHS trusts by government. That’s the UK government, not the EU.
      As we have seen, the leave campaign had no intention of increasing the funding to the NHS – see above. Equally, the remain campaign warned that any knock to our economy would reduce the amount of money that the government would have to invest in services such as the NHS or social care. This is because of reductions in taxable income as well as the impact that an unstable economy would have on government borrowing costs. It was calculated that a 1% reduction in GDP would lose far more than the cash we paid to the EU .
      In short, I don’t think that you will see an improvement in waiting times.
      You should be aware that if you’ve got cancer you get priority treatment so you should let your GP know -the waiting times are really short once you get into the system. If you’re really worried you can go to a MIAMI clinic.

      Liked by 3 people

      1. I am sick of hearing “The leave campaign promises all this money to the NHS” for a start Farage did not pledge any money to anyone. If you listen carefully he said he would like to think the money would go tinge NHS etc. considering he is not even an MP he was never in a position to promise anything, anymore than anyone else was apart from the Tory government …… It was never an election and anyone other than the government that campaigned either way were purely trying to persuade us one way or another, as was Richard Branson or James Dyson etc etc.
        Feel free to be angry but don’t lose your humility and always treat people the way you expect to be treated.

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  7. unbelievably stupid rant. you appear to be saying that the Leave campaign lied to you about EVERYTHING…………. You had time, and resources to do your own research, not just accept the bullshit they fed you.. If nothing else is true, know this… The one reason to vote out, is so we can once more be in control of our own destiny, for good or bad. If you disagree with the decisions of the ruling party, you can , in theory, remove them every five years….Were to to remain, the ruling class of the EU were only going to demand more power, more money, less accountability.. AND WE HAD NO WAY OF REMOVING THEM, OR DECLINING THEIR ORDERS…… None of them were elected. I bet you couldn’t name more than a couple of those in charge in the EU… There is NO evidence that we will be worse off, out of the EU. NOR better off… we have made a democratic decision. lets live with that and stop crying because we didn’t like the result…

    Liked by 1 person

    1. It’s not my fault you were too lazy to vote for your MEPs. It is not my fault that you could not be bothered to vote in general elections to decide who your representative would be in the Council of Ministers. It is not my fault that you find the concept of 28 nations having an equal say (oh and by the way, UK has a 9 votes so we have more than an equal say) repulsive. Here’s an idea. Let’s reform UK so that instead of one prime minister imposed on us by people living in the marginal shires lets have a collective council made up of 28 regions that represent the diversity of demographics. Oh is that too demographic, does it fail to inflict one-party policy on the whole country? Oh by the way it isn’t THEIR orders, it is OUR orders.

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  8. The lowest and weakest attack us the one that this is a fascist vote. I voted leave and am not even close to being a racist. Your rants sound like much more of a xenophobic or an Anglophobe than any I could even begin to come up with. Asnd as for the young my sons also in their 20s voted out and not because of me. Most of the young have no experience whatsoever of running businesses with Europe, finance or anything else. Must of their views are fueled by propaganda. I think you need to experience life a bit more before you rant

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    1. Amanda, like you I too voted to leave and am so far from being xenophobic or an idiot. And I am extremely hurt to be called such things. I agree with what you said wholeheartedly. I believe in a free market economy and free movement of people. I voted leave because I believe the EU is a sinking ship and to get out now while we’re on top is better than waiting until the whole thing collapses and we have to help bail out countries like Greece. I think the Remain camp are behaving with extremely bad grace. For once in their lives things are not going their way and they don’t know how to handle it. I’m ashamed of them. It’s a bad day for democracy.

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      1. So how do you account for Farage’s comment quoted in the original post ie that a close vote wouldn’t see the end of their campaign. was he indicating an accept a remain vote? or er missus!

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  9. If you want to live in a democracy, you need to accept the fact that results you don’t like are a consequence. Fuethermore, as Thomas Jefferson said, “The cornerstone of democracy rests on the foundation of an educated electorate.” If the UK population was so unwilling to educate themselves about the facts of this referendum prior to the vote, I have no sympathy. Stop complaining and get on with it. Whatever happened to Keep Calm and Carry On?!?!?!? And shame on you all for giving that moron Trump momentum

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    1. In a democracy, if you don’t agree with a policy, you can vote out the party that made that policy and that policy can be changed. Eleanor is angry, as those who have benefited from EU membership for 40 years have decided to take that benefit away from her, for the whole of her life – no democratic opportunity EVER to have that benefit Juncker has made that clear. .That’s the problem when people make choices for selfish reasons or out of spite.

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  10. I am a baby boomer pensioner and I agree with everything you say. I am also angry. The OUT vote was won by
    1… selfish oldies who ‘wanted the country back as it was’ and baby boomers who also had it all, free education, cheap rent council houses and then the right to buy them at massive discounts, generous pensions and an NHS. They leave nothing for the younger generation.
    2 The working poor and those in deprived communities and those who wanted to give Cameron a good kicking.
    3 The racist scared bigots.

    There were many that voted Leave for genuine political and intellectual reasons but it was the above that won the campaign for Leave.

    Liked by 3 people

  11. OK let’s look at some of your statements. Your figures on voting, look at the number of you ‘young folk ‘ who voted, less than 18%, and that is only the ones who bothered to vote. An example of you young folk, I brought my card to Glastonbury,someone told me I could vote here, oh really

    On the side of the bus it mentions £350 million, it also mentions the NHS, what it doesn’t say is that the money will go to the NHS, but that needs the ability to see beyond the red rage.

    The immigration statement. It was take back control. Not shut the borders, What it does allow is the admission of those we want to come in and keep out those we don’t. Are you aware that there is a shortage of Bangladeshi chefs, but they can’t bring any more in. We need physicists, there are plenty in India and the Phillipines but we can’t bring them in

    Ah,the working time directive, where people who want to work can’t because the hours worked clock is full. Hospital consultants in training are, on average, hundreds of hours short on instruction compared to twenty years ago because of the working time directive. I had my hours cut short regularly because of the working time directive.

    What did Wales do? Why lump them in with prescription charges. Incidentally did you know that 88% of prescriptions in England are free? Welsh steelworkers! There were more on Teesside but no help, because Labour has had a dead man’s shoes MP there forever. To say nothing of the Labour gov attitude to green energy and the associated costs which got stuck on the industry
    52% isn’t a fair majority. Now then, remember if you tell lies your nose gets bigger, id the vote had been 52-48 for remain, would you have shouted fix? Remember, your nose will get bigger!
    Your last two items really aren’t worthy of consideration, just ranat

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    1. Dear Dennis Clark, I believe you’ll find that the working time directive was/is in fact predominantly designed to protect workers from excessive demands of employers, for eg. in relation to ‘sweat shop’ type situations… If you wish to opt out there is a provision to do so, with a further provision to opt back in without risk of reprisal. IIRC the opt-out is not available to those under the age of 18, presumably to prevent abuse of minors.   Source: https://www.gov.uk/maximum-weekly-working-hours

      As for your assertion that Teesside Steel went down the pan “because Labour has had a dead man’s shoes MP there forever. Labour government… etc etc”
      -it appears to me to that you’re living in cloud cuckoo land (I struggle to believe you could be from Teesside). The big changes in the international steel situation have been entirely since we’ve had Cons in power… Go check out the stats or a graph or two, if you find anything that reliably contradicts that I’d be most grateful if you’d point me in the direction so that I may educate myself of the facts before spouting a load of old claptrap…
      To my eye, the main problem for Teesside steel, in terms of a politician, was/is our esteemed ‘northern powerhouse minister’ and his apparent inaction.

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    2. There’s a big problem with the words ‘we want’. So if, for example, I want my long-distance relationship partner (for 15 years) to come and live with me, how do I know the the collective ‘we’ will allow this? Will I be personally consulted on what ‘we want’. Will the policy allow me to drill this down to ‘Ms …… of ……’ will be allowed because that is what I want. Will we still have the power to force other states to reciprocate so I can chose to retire to ……. where Ms …… lives? Or am I classed as a sub-human because of who I fell in love with and not worthy of basic human rights?

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  12. Congratulations and well done! I am sick of people moaning that “everyone has become a politician”. I am not a polititian, I am a normal person who works hard 6 days a week to scrape a wiving and am now completely screwed over. I have also been told that I need to remain “positive about the future”. Our economy is hitting completely uncharted territory and possible ruin thanks to a tidal wave of bullshit propoganda that could send us straight into the abyss. Hilariously, noone can give me a good reason to stay positive that has not yet been backtracked by politicians. I’m angry, worried and will not be silenced. Freedom of speech goes for everyone. Even people who voted to Leave are now regretting their vote and realising it was based on being fed lies. We need to be loud. We need to be heard.

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  13. I feel genuinely sorry for you. But honestly, your post is full of factual errors. Farage was never part of Vote Leave, and Susanna Reid’s questions to him were therefore nonsensical. She either didn’t understand that his campaign (Leave.EU) didn’t make those claims, (and she was therefore badly informed), or she purposely confused the issue.
    Secondly, the Vote Leave bus doesn’t actually say “£350 million to go to the NHS” as you claimed. Please read it carefully, not just imagining what you want it to say.
    Thirdly, people vote in elections all the time and then regret how they voted. (As many Lib Dem Voters did in 2010). Unfortunately, that means nothing. You don’t get to retract your vote afterwards. That’s how voting works: once it’s in the box it’s final. Did no-one explain that to you beforehand? Plus, how many Remain voters have since changed their mind?
    Fourthly, you say “This was a Xenophobic Vote, or an ignorant one”. How dare you?! How do you know why people voted? Get off your high horse and come back down to earth where us mere mortals live your highness! What gives you the right to call people “xenophobic” and “ignorant”? Your attitude seems fairly “ignorant” to many of us.
    Fifthly, just because Trump supported it, doesn’t make it a bad decision. If Trump thinks seatbelts are a good idea, do you drive around without a seatbelt on just to disagree with him?
    Sixthly, what really gets on my nerves is when everyone keeps talking about young people saying “It’s their future we’re deciding”, or similar phrases, like you used… Unless you’re literally about to die, isn’t it OUR future – i.e. all of us?!? People over 25 have a future as well, (as well as children that they want to grow up in a better world).
    Seventhly, the SNP hardly needed much of an excuse to ask for another referendum. They exist to make Scotland independent, so hardly a great suprise! Also, to listen to the BBC and other media recently, you’d think that no-one in Scotland and N. Ireland voted to leave: when in reality around 40% of them did. Those 40% (2 out of 5) won’t be “dragged out against their will”.
    Oh, I could go on all day! But seriously, some kind of mass-hysteria seems to have broken out online these last few days, whereby normally decent, polite people seem to think that it’s okay to accuse their friends, family and fellow citizens of bigotry/racism/stupidity/naivete simply because they didn’t vote the “right” way in the referendum. Well, if you don’t want to live in a country where the people have the power to make important decisions, (a democracy), then I could suggest a few alternatives to you. (North Korea and Saudi Arabia come straight to mind). However, I fear that you might find them a lot less pleasant, and would urge you to see the bright side of living in a democracy and find it in your heart to forgive your neighbour for disagreeing with you.

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    1. I can’t bd bothered to respond to all of your points but anyone can play with semantics and what the message on the bus – which by the way breached the NHS brand ownership rights by using the logo – the point is that if one (for 1 read say 250,000) person did actually believe that £350 million per week would be put into the NHS, then it is a marketing scam that acheived its objective.

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  14. Sorry, load of b*ll*cks! It was a democratic vote! We did not f**k over the young voters, we put right what the old voters did to the youngsters back in the 70’s! Besides, the EU club we joined back then,is not the same as it is now – it’s a club we wouldn’t join now!

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    1. Eleanor, I am curious to know when, seeing you seem to think that “Older people” have “fucked over” (your words, not mine) the younger generation, at what age you intend to relinquish your own right to vote. After all, I am sure you would not like, in years to come, your vote to “fuck over” the future generations. By the way, I would suggest that you try a little harder to avoid foul language if you have serious aspirations of becoming a professional writer. Resorting to profanities is both unbecoming and un-necessary. I look forward to your reply on the above question but I am not holding my breath awaiting your response.

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  15. Stop and think…think…50% of the Youth in the EU are unemployed…they are wishing they had a vote to get out of the EU…but cannot as the EU is an un-Democratic Country. In Greece suicides are rising of people including small business owners who see no other way out. One of the biggest most recent spends by the EU unelected hierarchy was £13 million pounds on ART for their offices.
    Many hundreds of the EU unelected ‘top executives’ are on salaries of £200,000 plus pa TAX FREE plus a lump sum payment of £58000 pa TAX FREE to help them to afford a lifestyle appropriate to their status plus ALL expenses! – it is referred to in the EU as ‘The Gravy Train’. I know this – and more – as I worked across the EU as an Operations Director, on visits to Brussels and Strasbourg where I couldn’t believe my eyes at the huge excesses and waste.

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  16. I really resent you blaming old people. I know lots of old people who voted to remain. If all the people who didn’t vote had bothered maybe we would have had a different result. Whatever we must now try to find a way forward and this old person is gutted too but everyone was entitled to vote and to their opinion.

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  17. Now that the votes are in… Still waiting to hear some legitimate positive remarks from the leave camp. If this is such a great thing why is there not more talk about pulling the trigger on Article 50? Whats the plan? I think the problem is, no one knows what the fuck is going on now… apart from the far right who seem to think this is a victory for bigotry or racism.

    Answer: There is no plan, because you can’t build a realistic plan when you sold a dream on a foundation of lies.

    …and that’s why people are angry.

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  18. Don’t shut up! This narrow ‘victory’ cannot be valid. The leave vote was based in lies and false promises. Am I angry? I have never been so pissed off. Expats who have been out of the UK but in the EU for more than 15 years were denied a vote by David Cameron – it would be reviewed after the Referendum!! And before anybody complains what is it to do with expats in Europe …… we are still liable for UK Tax, we have to complete UK tax returns, we still travel and buy goods from the UK, we introduce EU customers to UK businesses. Will probably lose health cover and have our pensions frozen. But hey, I have only worked since the age of 16 and paid all my tax,NI etc until I retired. What have the young got to look forward to? Much worse I suggest.

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    1. If you won by 2% im sure you would be very happy to accept it. Now shut the fuck up and focus on helping this country not dividing us.

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    2. So you live abroad why should you have a say you turned you’re back on your own country no doubt for tax reasons cheaper to live there then bet

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  19. Meinir: so old people (according to you anyone over 65) (God help us!) should be pretty much thrown on the scrap heap then? No matter that a lot of 65 year olds are still in employment, have worked and paid taxes for a good 40 to 50 years, have brought up families of their own, are often very wise people, still have so much to give to society. They should give up their vote to a 16 year old, still wet behind the ears, more than likely is only interested in computer games and music (not a bad thing, I would be too if I was 16), hasn’t got the faintest idea of what the world is going to throw at them or how to deal with it, their vote is more valid? Oh help us all.

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  20. Don’t apologise, Eleanor, Don’t even think of it. My generation just screwed yours, and I am just as angry about it. I am also ashamed.Turn this anger into energy, and fight for our future.

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  21. Shut it….bitter bitter woman.
    If anything the remain side were more fictional than the leave camp. Plus they used more fearmongering tactics. It didnt work, we wont fall for that again.
    When will you people learn that the EU is not for the people it is for corperations and the elite. Everything they do is to line their own pockets. Do you really think cameron and the EU commisioners really care about your fucking wages…..they are worried that they will lose control over the 5th largest economy and ultimately begin to lose power over the whole of europe. You people need to wake the fuck up and realise we have to stand up for ourselves again before we are forever slaves to the establishment.

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      1. The trouble, Eleanor, is that not even the awful truth of what’s about to hit us will persuade these foul-mouthed fools. They hate what this country has become, so ignore them. Let them rage their futile hate. I’d rather trust The Economist’s view this morning. Worth a read: http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2016/06/anarchy-uk?fsrc=scn%2Ftw_ec%2Fbritain_is_sailing_into_a_storm_with_no_one_at_the_wheel

        Having said that, the young do bear some responsibility for the outcome. If the million or so new young voters had registered to vote last year, it’s highly unlikely there would even have been a referendum. So please, please, get them registered to vote before the next General Election! It is now our highest priority.

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      2. Foul mouthed language from sneering gits? The following quotes are all taken from Eleanor’s original post.
        “Fucked us over”
        “shitty decision for another seventy bloody years”
        “turd faced moron”
        “literally don’t give a fuck about you”
        “this shit isn’t ”
        “Actually fuckwit, yes there is. ”

        or is it only foul mouthed if it disagrees with the Remain point of view?

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  22. Hi,
    The aim is not to shut up or not but to understand in order not to get manipulated :

    1./ OLD PEOPLE
    Many young people voted Brexit BECAUSE the EU unemployment rate
    is higher than the non EU countries like Switzerland, Norway and Iceland.
    Votes are anonym. Don’t believe the statisticians, they are financed by mass media which interest was REMAIN.

    2./ LIES
    I won’t go to details since I am French and don’t know about NHS however, UK pays 30p per person per day.
    For what ???? As Queen said, give me 3 valid reasons to stay in EU. You have a weak army now, grown independentists, installed poverty etc.

    3./ LACK OF INFORMATION
    Believe me the leave camp gave you more information and figures that the remain camp !!

    4./ RACISM
    Don’t switch to other subjects like racism, fascism etc
    We are speaking about belonging to Eurozone and what EU has brought to England since 1973 …

    5./ TRUMP
    Again, please stay focused on the EU subject. The fact that Trump, Fidel Castro or whoever ISIS, Bush etc …
    likes EU or not is NOT our problem.

    6./ 52%
    Yes it is a clear majority because we?you? got those 52% despite mass media were in favour of remain.
    They even tried (this is my personnal opinion of course) to shoot Ms Cox through a kind of Lee Harvey Oswald
    to try to create some kind of electroshock.
    Tusk said “Brexit would be the end of Western civilization” !!!! ????
    Don’t believe in these crooks.
    Juncker is expert in Bank fraud (this is proven). Draghi worked for Goldman Sachs that put Greece into trouble and make banker richer etc.
    So with these conditions 52% is very good.

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  23. So ms Eleanor st Claire. .how terribly posh…..not with the mouth of a sewer that you seem to possess..Have you ever heard of democracy?? Or are you just a spoilt little madam?? The United Kingdom is a democracy that everyone is given the right to vote as they seem fit. You think it is for you and you alone???? I voted to leave because I am older and wiser than you and therefore in a different place to offer an opinion to your bigoted opinions. When you can differentiate the both sides then that gives you a voice to shout your huge gob over everybody else. Come back when you have some nous child.

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  24. Baby Boomers…

    Their parents fought and made massive sacrifices in war time and looked at the world and said Never Again. They gave their children freedom of thought and expression whilst they benefited from high employment, free universities and an outward looking perspective and then? And then the Boomers got older and suddenly pulled up the ladder, stopped spending on things that had earlier gifted them their freedom and said that it was all the fault of the lazy youth.

    They’ve screwed their grandchildren out of their future.

    Yes, I’m angry.

    Liked by 2 people

  25. God I got bored about 3 lines in, get over youslef, Like it or not its done, eather put your energy into helping to build this country back to what it once was (hard working and honest) or move to the EU plenty of room

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  26. Jump back in your pram you stupid person and have some respect or better still shut the f__k up as you’ve no idea what you’re sprouting on about

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    1. Foul mouth langauge from ignorant sneering gits does not help the debate. Either make reasoned responses to the points or shut up.

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  27. As an interested baby boomer I have to say that its a pity that all this anger has not been used more productivelyin active politics. Yes some older people have voted selfishly with no cocern for the younger generation. However if more younger people had voted in the last election there would have been no referendum! Some people voted leave because they were angry with the Government. However this was serious and permanent – not a local government vote that could be reversed in 4 years. A referendum is unfair when the result is binding on nearly half the country who voted differently and also future voters for years to come. This changes the future of our country- it is not a game or shouting match. The EU did not cut our services and mandate austerity- it was the desire of a doctrinare Government who are hitting the most vunerable in our society. ‘Our ‘money was being redirected by the EU to some of the poorest parts of the country that the Government has been leaving to rot. It is the oldest trick out to get people to scapegoar other people or institutions- it lets the politicians off the hook Some of the language on these blogs has been disgusting and vile and is not helped by patronising and rude comments from older people- we get the younger generation we deserve. Please try directing your anger to the right targets – the politicians must be laughing at our gullibility.

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  28. If the agenda was to divide and conquer with this referendum, in light of all the petitions, protests and use of the Freedom of Information act, then they have done a good job.
    They have set family members against each other, closet racists have come out, generations are blaming each other and even some towns and cities have started petitions to leave the UK.
    Let’s unite against those who lied to the nation during the campaign. Let’s hold THEM to account, not each other and let’s fight together against the upward filtration of wealth.

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  29. I get that you are angry. I am not going to say you don’t have a right to be angry. But where do you get off blaming this simply on the old folks. Guess what they get as much say as any other demographic in the UK. Figure out where you and your generation goes from now. I hope your mummy, daddy, and grandparents are able to handle how much you hate them because they are old. It is also not true that folks were unable to make informed votes. Much of the information was available for you and anyone else who wanted to look it up before hand. A lot of folks seem to be unwilling to look information up if it doesn’t come in a text, tweet, or blog post; but it was already there. If it wasn’t why are they now getting the information they want as they finally start looking things up on google? Staying angry isn’t very productive. It is exhausting. Don’t you think you would benefit more to direct that anger towards things you can effect? Like the future now that the worst has happened? The EU said before the election that this would be an irreversible decision so the stupidity of asking for a second referendum cannot be overstated.

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  30. I’m sorry to see you were angry about getting the wrong result, I feel your pain. I was livid when David Cameron was elected in 2015 with 24.3% of the vote. I was one of the 75.7% who didn’t vote for him but he still became Prime Minister. I actually thought that the referendum was fairer because every vote actually counted and 52% sounds like more of a majority than Cameron’s 24.3% in 2015 ? Agreed ?, If you don’t, I wouldn’t be considering Canada if I were you, they are also democratic….. I feel sorry for the Welsh who put their faith in Mr Cameron too, but you are wrong about Westminster giving money to the Welsh, Westminster doesn’t have any money. It is you and I that give money to the Welsh and all the rest of the British taxpayers, but we do it via the EU. (for now) Maybe they should have considered Plaid Cymru. I also feel a little sorry for Nigel Farage, who was not a member of the official “Leave” campaign but seems to be the scapegoat for opening Pandora’s Box, I’m surprised you put your faith in my friend Tancredi’s impressive demographic accusation, especially the column that says you will live for 69 years in desolation, you certainly didn’t look past your anger when you sucked up those stats that were an intentional wind-up.. I resent your arrogance too by the way. Do you actually believe that Leave voters were influenced by a message on a red bus ? Anyway enough of this, I could go on more but I am keybored now. I did enjoy reading your article even though I disagree with just about all of it. By the way, I am of working class and 68 years of age…….. yeah, I know it’s my fault, but my mate Tancredi reckons that I only have 16 years to put up with the forthcoming Armageddon if I am lucky, so good luck to you

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  31. I’m going to sat a thank-you that you probably won’t want.

    I am also one of the 48% (sixteen million people) who voted Remain and are extremely unhappy about being dragged out of the EU against our will.

    I have also been struggling with feelings of extreme anger about it.

    But reading your piece made me realise how those feelings of anger at being on the wrong side of a democratic vote – and that is what happened to us – would look to others.

    So thank you for helping me get over my own anger, which has done me no more good than yours is doing for you, and start thinking what I can constructively do to help our country move forward from this mess.

    After Thursday and last year’s election I am taking everything from an opinion poll survey with a bucketful of salt, but that is where the voting split by age comes from and it is also where the turnout figures come from. (I’m looking at the figures Michael Ashcroft published.)

    One of the many reasons I voted Remain is that my teenage son and daughter, who are slightly too young to be able to vote themselves but who will have to live with the consequences of Thursday’s vote for many years longer than I will, were of that view. The polling surveys suggest that nearly three quarters of those in aged 18-24 range who voted backed Remain. But those same surveys show that only about a third of them voted.

    By my calculations, IF the opinion surveys are right about the turnout and IF their figures genuinely represent opinion in the relevant age ranges, then had the same proportion of voters aged 18-30 turned out to vote as people aged over 65 managed, our country would not be leaving the EU.

    Can’t prove that but it’s as reliable as the data you were quoting (which it also lines up with) and it is in line with my own experience.

    I’ve done my share of political campaigning, and one of the things I learned is that if you knock on a door while canvassing, and it takes a while before an elderly person comes to the door, possibly on a zimmer frame, but they tell you “Yes, you’ll get my vote” or “I will be voting” that vote is as good as in the ballot box (For you in the former case, and probably for your opponent in the latter!) Other generations do not turn out to vote as consistently as the elderly do.

    So my message to my son and daughter has been, don’t blame the elderly people who took the trouble to vote for what they thought was right for our country for doing this to your generation. Learn the lesson that it also happened because most people aged 18 to 30 didn’t vote. And make sure you never make that mistake.

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  32. If young people went to the polls, their voice would have been stronger but as usual they were being to lazy, sitting at home playing video games, smoking pot and now they want to complain.

    GET OUR YOURSELF LASSIE AND MOVE ON. The people have spoken!!!

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    1. Actually – more young people than ever voted in this referendum AND there was even a rumble from those who were not yet old enough to vote but still understood what was going on and wanted to put their vote on it (it’s their future too). So Shhhh…

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  33. But the real blame lies at the feet of everyone who has bought into this British Better Together lie. Its taken you till now to no longer be proud to be British. This is just yet another example of how poisonous this union is, one item on a very very long list, and is the natural and obvious conclusion to the tag line Welsh and British.

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  34. What really gets me is that more people voted in this referendum than previous gov elections!! If those people had voted back when it was time to choose a leader for this country that can stand up to the EU and get a better deal for Britain and where the money goes then we would be happier – no need for a referendum in the first place

    Honestly, I didn’t buy into either sides lies and voted based on long term consequences (remain)

    Also. I think there should be a few qualifying questions people should answer before voting on something like this. If you pass go ahead and vote
    If you fail the questions then sorry, you haven’t got the right knowledge on the subject to make an informed choice
    That should prevent the “oh shits” & “what’s the EU?” WHEN ITS TOO LATE!!

    That’s my rant done. Good post btw
    Tx

    Liked by 1 person

  35. I’m old enough to remember the ‘Angry Young Men’ of the 1950’s who railed,ranted and rebelled against the huge,remote,anti-people Establishment of the time.Then there was the 1960’s generation of ‘Angry Young People’ who railed,ranted and rebelled against the huge,remote,anti-people Establishment of the time,(anti-Vietnam war protestors’n’ all of that…).Now,let’s fast forward 50 years to today.And what do we find? A posh spoilt brat called Eleanor St Clare railing,ranting and rebelling FOR AND ON BEHALF OF a huge,remote,anti-people Establishment,based in Brussles,called the European Union.You couldn’t make it up,honestly.A number of countries in the EU’s southern flank have been teetering on the edge of bankruptcy for years now…France has been experiencing massive nationwide strikes by the people there rebelling AGAINST Brussels and its latest terms and conditions to be enforced in the workplace.(Engendered by big corporations lobbyists based over there in Brussels).By the way, Lizzie,Switzerland has recently cancelled its long-standing application to join the EU saying that it would be madness to do so now.As they are one of the most prosperous countries on the planet,perhaps they know something that even you,in your childish ignorance don’t !

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    1. A few points. I’m fairly sure they were right to protest and be angry about slavery, racism, corruption and the Vietnam war.

      Switzerland negotiated a deal that gave them the best of both worlds and btw they still have to abide by EU rules in respect to the free market. God Bless the Swiss and their secretive tax dodging bank accounts which hold the money for the rich elite. Fairly sure those bank accounts and the secrets they hide have nothing to do with the deal they made though.

      They young people of today have grown up in a digital world without borders and actually might know a thing or too about society which us old folk can’t learn from the Daily Mail or the Sun.

      And as for Freedom, Sovereignty and the ability to make our own decisions. We will end making a deal where we will need to allow freedom of travel and abide by EU rules in order to maintain access to the free market. So guess what? Your leave vote will have achieved nothing.

      What we should have done was join our French cousins in ‘ranting and rebelling against the huge,remote,anti-people Establishment of the time’ and pushed for reform.

      Oh one more thing. The immigrants aren’t going anywhere.

      The leave voters seem to have made their vote based on a fantasy of going back to an era before a globally connected generation who realise the world doesn’t end at the bottom of the street.

      Liked by 1 person

  36. I’m an angry 48%er too, but not as articulate as you. Thanks for saying exactly how I’m feeling/thinking right now.

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  37. The vote was 13:12, ie swung by just 1-in-25 of those who turned out (as over ¼ of us didn’t, for whatever reason); 52% of 72% gives an active ‘out’ vote of pretty well exactly 3/8, and if that’s a ringing postmodern democratic endorsement of anything, I must be a banana (of Brussels-approved curvature or no). Given the narrowness of the margin, one wonders how many of those people had allowed themselves to be convinced by the fictistics admitted-to post facto by Nigel Farage, in almost the same breath by which he claimed victory for ‘British decency’. The key 1/25 in turn represent about 0.5% of the total continental (as-is) electorate, since GB comprises pretty well exactly 1/8 of the current overall population.

    Our church and other leaders are valiantly encouraging us to seek common cause with people whose concept of Sovereignty presumably includes allowing our recently and rightly feted Queen to slip towards her dotage as the ‘United’ Kingdom tears itself down the middle and apart along its ancient seams. The myopia and amnesia of that alone are breathtaking to some of us; comparable, if only in limited respects, to those of the fickle crowds who hailed the Triumphal Entry just days before baying for the Crucifixion.

    We Remainiacs are now accused of being ‘bad losers’ on a statistically piffling margin against a cohort including many who, by their subsequent confession, hadn’t a clue their actions would have any real, serious or lasting consequences. Some of those accusers now might well reflect on how they felt after the Maradona ‘hand of God’ goal in the mere context of a regular international football tournament. In current circumstances our gravamen stems from the narrowness of that margin, the ultimately less-than-representative proportion and the lies and oblivion through which these were procured. Though (as it happens) never any great shakes as a sportsman, I have no objection to being fairly beaten; but here the stakes are incalculably higher (and the Brexiteers themselves don’t seem to have done any such calculations).

    Meanwhile my mother died 10 weeks ago, ‘peacefully of natural causes after a mercifully short final illness’ as the cliché goes, at the age of 87. As I recalled in my eulogy, she had watched the Battle of Britain overhead as a schoolgirl and sat what would now be GCSE German directly under one of the V1 flying-bomb lanes (from potential near-misses of which, they had to stop the clock and take refuge under their desks a handful of times during that actual paper); she became a high-level Foreign Office secretary and met my father-to-be in Germany in the mid-1950s, in the BAOR secretariat at Rheindahlen, where in due course I was conceived on mainland European (though technically British) soil. Had she not passed away of natural causes, I quite seriously think that if last week’s news had been the final thing she heard through the fog, it would have finished her off. I am glad for her she was spared that experience … and ashamed, myself, for once, to be an Englishman, after 35yrs principally as a qualified teacher of modern European languages and an occasionally active town-twinner. Whether the inexorable drop in uptake on MFLs in schools over recent decades correlates in any way to the current ‘majority myopia’ vis-a-vis our continental cousins, I will leave to others in the field to explore.

    I was therefore already grieving the loss of my mother, although I knew increasingly that that was only a matter of time. Whether the recent Brexcitements have caught me on the rebound or what, is perhaps hard to tell from so immediately and close-to, but somehow it feels worse. We had a remarkable sermon on Sunday morning at the village church where I have been organist since 2008, given by our licensed lay minister who gave a quarter-century of his working life as a senior scientist in an EU-funded research institution, and who prefaced his words by declaring this to be the toughest preaching commission he had ever had to fulfil. He took us with admirable, tasteful sincerity through his own sense of incredulity and grief, and on to the promises in today’s Scriptures, not least about laying aside any factionalism. We were effectively invited to sing the Lord’s song in what is suddenly a strange land (or was it somehow ever thus?); I happened to have chosen some hymns that turned out to be highly poignant and pertinent, and playing them felt strangely potent.

    Try as I might, I still find it a mighty challenge to seek common cause with the Brexiteers in what has ultimately been a binary decision-making process. I cannot even respect their viewpoint since I know significant aspects of that to be founded on outright lies. Their outlook is more alien to me than that of good friends across the Channel. I am aware that other parts of our country (and the UK in general) have been hurting for generations, but this present scenario seems to me to be offering the wrong answer to the wrong question and quite possibly at the wrong time. Of course the EU is not perfect, it may not have had its accounts signed-off as kosher since before the millennium etc, but at least it offered some enduring hope of dealing pragmatically with our nearest neighbours, to the principle of whose aid we clung, and sprang in action, within living memory. I fail to grasp how running away from them in our collective hour of need is in the slightest respect consonant with British fair play, nor the Christian charity which has (with some glaring exceptions) been a cornerstone of European aspiration over virtually 2000 years. And now this ‘credibility gap’ is supposed to be somehow my fault; I was ipso facto ‘wrong’ in the beliefs and values by which I have lived the 40-odd years since I became a Europhile adult and voter. Why, just 4 years ago we were hosting the London Olympiad, with a fair amount of internationalist grandstanding from one BoJo unless I am much mistaken; and look at him now … who’s ‘wrong’, him or us?

    Today I at least take some heart from talk of the Scots (I am ¼ Scots down my father’s side) refusing to ratify the referendum result in Westminster, presumably alongside a good number of Remaininac parliamentarians of all nominal parties or none. If the referendum was even significantly ‘about democracy’, I would hope for a robust and frank debate as to the absolute validity of the remit. Whether the Scots or anyone else have it in their power to mire or stymie Brexit, it would be no bad thing to hear a voice or two for the 5/8 of us who did not positively endorse this leap into the unknown. In times when we are urged to be thinking the unthinkable, perhaps that would be a worthwhile possibility. Meanwhile the Brexiteers are all suddenly very conciliatory (‘British’, even: diffident, shambling, ‘let’s all take our time’ etc.) about not offending our friends and partners on the mainland as we otherwise sling constitutional mud at them. The hypocrisy of that stage alone is enough to make one queasy.

    My apologies for sharing this perspective at some length, but I hope it may strike the odd chord.

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  38. The article goes on about racism ! Shame on them as they too are racists. We live in a demoracy , so to judge and blame older voters is appalling ! Shame on them! My dad fought in WWII for our independence away from a dictatorship . He was captured and held prisoner of war and whilst he escaped, he would not speak about the ordeal, but the resultant effects of post traumatic stress was evident by the long term hysterical nightmares from what he had experienced
    You need to but your energies into helping the nation unite and move forward from the democratic vote leave

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  39. I am in the older voter category. I too have concerns about Europe but my wife and I voted for the future of our two daughters. We dismay to hear examples of people who voted “out” in spite of their children/grandchildren telling them that they would be negatively affected by a leave vote. If this isn’t extremely selfish, I don’t know what is as us older people are going to enjoy the perceived benefits of leaving the EU only for a relatively short time. BTW, an older leave voter told us that the reason she is voting leave is because it is getting too crowded and therefore she is experiencing more difficulty getting a car park at Waitrose.

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  40. Brilliant stuff. Says everything I am saying and thinking … and I’m a bit Welsh so I too was horrified to see most there vote leave. What were they thinking? I agree, London never, ever thinks about Wales. They’re going to have to think about Scotland, though – Wales take note.

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  41. Think you’re following the Paul Simon line; “let’s get together and call ourselves an institute” Getting yourself a website and slagging off a democratic vote that didn’t go your way doesn’t make anyone an expert on every subject under the sun. The certainty and sense of entitlement the remain campaign exuded was its downfall. Now the bile comes. If the young didn’t vote it’s their and their fault and no one else’s.

    ps: in my part of Yorkshire plenty of young people voted out.

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  42. Dear Eleanor. Totally agree with you and what you say. I’m 63 and voted to remain, partly because of all the young people I know who deserve a better deal than they’ve been getting, and partly because I have made some great friends who are working in the UK from other EU countries.
    Not sure why many Brits think so damn highly of our little island home. Much of the positives in our present day culture and society and due to how welcoming we are to other nationalities.

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