NO! I won’t shut up.

I am angry. I am so very angry. I woke up today to an absolute shit storm, and now people are saying, let’s just be quiet. Let’s accept it and move on. Let’s concentrate on what comes next. There is nothing we can do. There really isn’t any point in getting upset about it.

NO! There is a point. I AM ANGRY and I won’t let it go. Today I am ashamed of being British, and of being Welsh. And you know what, I think we NEED to be angry. We were not angry enough about this farce of a referendum before it happened, I damn well am not going to be quiet now.

Reasons I am angry.

1._Old people (specifically baby boomers) fucked us over, and they don’t have to deal with it for as long as we do. 

Yeah. I said it.

Yeah, I know, everyone gets a vote, but when my generation have to live with this shitty decision for another seventy bloody years, I think I am allowed to be angry. So I am going to keep shouting.

UPDATE: I think I angered a lot of the 33% who voted remain, and that was not my intention. This result was also down to education and poverty, but there IS a difference in age and votes. Nobody’s saying ALL baby boomers voted that way…but people still have the right to be angry about the 58%.

UPDATE 2: People are managing to pull these amazing percentages out of thin air of young people who haven’t turned up to vote. Thing is, I’ve looked for sources of these percentages, and the only real numbers I can find are from a census…in 2011. It is true that turnout was lower in the referendum in places where more young people live, but that is the only concrete evidence I can find. We cannot go on these 2011 census results, because far more people voted in this referendum than in previous elections.(The infographic above is from one of the most recent polls, but is still, I will be the first to admit, not concrete). But to the people suggesting I am putting all the blame on old people…please! There are nine other points on this post, and as in any election or referendum, I HATE that people are not using their vote. People have DIED to get us a vote. But this does not make my anger towards the trend that a recent poll has pointed towards any less valid.

2. The lies.

This was just the first of the lies the leave campaign have backtracked on today.

Oh wait, that looks like a big red bus, with, yep, £350 million to go to the NHS. Apart from the fact this was total crap from the start and anyone with a braincell could see it (I mean, seeing as the UK does get a lot of that money back, surely most of the £350 million would go to those areas that lost that money?), I am just angry that that turd faced moron had the cheek to sit there and defend it.

Another lie? Daniel Hannan retracts the claim that leaving the EU will reduce immigration. Yeah mate, I coulda told you that. So nope, still not shutting up.

3. The lack of information

Gove said Brexit would mean we wouldn’t have to follow EU regulations costing UK businesses £600 million a week. Third on that list – the Working Time Directive. The directive that means 1.7 million part-time women workers have a right to paid holiday. Either more lies, or we are moving backwards.

And as for Wales voting leave?

Congratulations Wales! You have put your trust in a Tory government who literally don’t give a fuck about you! How much money do you think Westminster will be sending your way? None! Say goodbye to good roads, free prescriptions and a load of jobs! Remember they did nothing when the steelworkers were under threat, they will do nothing when other jobs are under threat. You are idiots.

4. This was a Xenophobic Vote, or an ignorant one

“I don’t want to sound racist, but there’s just too many foreign people coming to this country,” was what one happy Brexiter told The Guardian on Friday.

 

Ok, so people say their vote was not racist. They based it on economic reasons (as the pound plummets), legal reasons (see point 3). That doesn’t mean that this shit isn’t happening out there today, because people have been told it is ok to act like that. And I am angry – this is not the UK I want to be part of. So I will not shut up.

5. Trump congratulated us on this vote.

Jesus, Britain. You need any more bloody clues on how bad an idea this is?

6. 52% is not a “clear majority.”

7. Our prime minister stepped down, leaving parliament in disarray and no clear plan for the future

“There is no need for a precise timetable today.” Actually fuckwit, yes there is. You knew that this was an option. It was a vote put to the people, a vote that could go one way or another. You should have had a clear timetable for both ways, we should have had a clear plan for the aftermath of this referendum.

8. Scotland might be leaving the UK

And who the hell can blame them?

9. People who voted were not given the facts- and now they regret their vote

“The facts are coming in now and our eyes are actually open,” she explained. “We’re actually seeing what’s happening.” Girl explaining how incredibly naive and gullible she was. But she wasn’t alone. The facts were just not given in this referendum, just jingoism and lies.

Source: (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/im-full-of-regret—extraordinary-moment-brexit-voter-changes-he/)

Yah fool! Another reason to stay angry, plus it leads me nicely onto…

10. We should never have had to vote in this referendum. The referendum should never have been a thing.

This became clear when google reported that “what does it mean if we leave the EU” becomes the most popular search…this morning.

😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡

I voted remain. And by being angry, I am showing Europe and the world that I do not agree. I do not agree with the racists who voted to get rid of immigrants. I never believed the lies UKIP and Farage and Boris told us.

But mostly, I am going to stay angry because it is my right.

And I will not leave it alone. Because I still care about my country. I can’t just up and leave (even though Canada does look really pretty), it wouldn’t be morally right. I was a part of this. I didn’t speak loud enough before. I may be one of the 48%, but I don’t get to shove this onto someone else. I am responsible.

And so I have to stay, and stay angry, to be sure that moving forward, we make the right decisions.

HI! I wrote another blog post. I would love it if you could read, comment and share! https://eleanorstclair.wordpress.com/2016/06/26/if-you-think-angers-over-think-again/

 

Advertisements

673 thoughts on “NO! I won’t shut up.

  1. Hiya! I’m so so sorry for you and for myself having lived in the UK for 15 years being German and for the first time ever I and every single person I know from Europe kind of feels/says the same thing “I have never ever before felt so unwanted/unwelcome/scared” and just about all of them have lived here I’d say 8 years plus (and have obviously been being paying taxes for the duration and a lot of those as most of my friends work in The City = though obivously doesn’t mean that somebody doing that kind of work is more important than somebody doing manual labour – point being I’ve never come across the mythical European scum benefit scrounger – maybe he/she is like a unicorn… ).

    However, not only did Germany abolish all student fees a couple of years ago in order to ensure that fees are no bar to access to higher education evening the playing field (mind you they only were a couple of 100 Euros per semester to begin with…) and this is of course equally open to EU students being equal to German students.

    BUT

    Even though there is a provision that German universities can charge Overseas students, virtually none of them do (with the exception of some very specialised courses so it’s always good to double check).

    The rationale for the free provision of university education to Overseas students is that this enhances Germany’s reputation and standing – the main areas targetted are showing the “New Germany” – not that new anymore really – so that people can experience that the country has changed and it also is meant to showcase academic excellence of course.

    The argument for not charging Overseas students (subject to the above caveat) is that in addition to the image considerations the majority stays on after completion of their course and works and pays taxes for three to five years giving back to German society.

    Also@ there are some courses run completely in English – largely where it is felt that this is mandtatory for German students in order to be able to compete internationally in some subject areas.

    So EU or no EU at least you can come to Germany and study and feel like nothing has changed for a bit 🙂

    P.S. to be exempt from the compulsory German language test at all German unis last time I checked a C in ALevel German was required from British citizens.

    Like

    1. I live in London and I love meeting people from all over the world it makes London one of the most exciting places on the planet. I will always give you a smile wherever you were born. I am flattered, if sometimes a little mystified, that people from all over the world chose to visit or live in the UK. Be assured many of us welcome you and you wouldn’t want to know those that don’t anyway.
      Some of what you have said underlines one of the reasons that the small enclave of Eurosceptic MPs in the Conservative party want to distance the UK from Europe. Modern, forward looking, European Countries are very much focussed on community and public services, without compromising capitalism. The right-wing of the Conservative Party (which is very conservative) doesn’t want that concept re-established in the UK it took many years of Thatcherism to stamp it out. I’m a cynical old man but I have grandchildren and therefore I am joining the millions who will refuse to accept the validity of the 2016 referendum.
      Gute Nacht und viel Glück. (I googled to get that bit)

      Like

      1. I lived one year in Germany, 4 in London. It changed my life, my job prospects. How can people deni youngsters the right to love, work, study, marry, visit freely 27 countries? My mum is 77, ans she knows I am closer to a lot of foreigners that share the same ethics and humour and lifestyle. We have internet, low cost airline. We have so many battles to fight together : Nepotism, education, water, environment, women’s right. We need to reform together not split us appart. I am heartbroken.

        Like

    2. Please stay in the UK, don’t let racists or bigots rule your life. Britain is all the richer for having a multi-cultural society.

      I am a retired ex-pat living in Spain and the out vote is a worry, but hopefully we can ride the storm. Fortunately we are not reliant on the Spanish national health, which is excellent, but for those that are life may change drastically over the next two years.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Can I add another reason please?

        Myself and millions of other EU-citizens who have lived and worked here for a decade or more were NOT allowed to vote in this referendum. We can vote in local and general elections but funnily enough not in this referendum. The ‘majority’ that has voted ‘leave’ completely discounts those many people who did not have a say.

        Liked by 1 person

    3. This isn’t about asking those people who have joined the UK to leave. This is about. Minimising the impact of large numbers of people coming in from all over the continent and from others. Do you think the cost would not damage the UK in future? We welcome people who can work, add value etc.
      Tbh this article is frankly immature.
      It’s not about young voters excluding everyone else just because they think they have some God given right over anyone else overs 25! Its about being able to negotiate better trade deals than Europe can make. It’s about making our own destiny. It’s about saving our NHS, schools, farming etc without being tied to an unelected eu. Which is a very different beast to what it was 40 years ago.
      We live in a democracy. The majority have spoken. Why not be positive about this than cause more fractures. If you don’t like it I’d suggest you move to Europe fairly soon

      Like

  2. I believe that we live in a democracy, that in itself means that if we hold a referendum and the majority wins that is enough for me to accept the decision. David Cameron was elected by a majority I did not want him in but I accepted it as it was a democratic vote. Throughout our recent history we have fought to give people democracy and now you hipocrits are saying that democracy does not work because you did not get what you wanted, well I am sorry but when the minority tells the majority what to do that is a dictatorship so if you the minority want a dictatorship you have the freedom to leave this free and democratic country of ours and go and live elsewhere. The referendum was held the votes were counted and the majority said leave. Live with it and work towards a better UK

    Like

    1. What we have in the UK is barely a democracy – especially when it comes to any form of public vote. The referendum is a perfect example in that just shy of 50% of voters are to be ignored. How is that democratic? Any general election may actually (and has) leave more than 50% of voters without a say in that their wishes are totally ignored. This is the result of the archaic first past the post system that the UK uses. None of the major parties will ever change this system simply because it would immediately weaken their own position – regardless of whether they are Tory or labour. Proportional representation is the only truly democratic system of voting ….. any voting!

      Like

      1. In Scotland, when we vote in holyrood elections, we don’t use “first past the post”, and I’m being represented by a party and leader that I, and the majority of other voters, did not vote for because the SNP won a higher percentage than all the other parties involved. If there was only two options to vote for, then the votes against the SNP would have been (as near as damn it) 2-1.

        The EU vote was two choices for the whole UK… Allowing for less “interpretation” than splitting a vote 3,4,5 or even 6 ways. It may not have been the result that some people wanted, but we have to show that the democratic process is to be allowed to proceed. Otherwise, the questions will never go away. Just look to the Scottish independence referendum. The minority refuse to accept the result from 2014 and have been calling for a re-run since September 19th 2014, because they didn’t get the result they wanted.

        Like

    2. Sadly you miss the point about democracy, and the difference between you NOT voting for Cameron but having to live with him because the majority that voted, voted for him. If he lied in the campaign and doesn’t deliver, or turns out not to have had a plan after all, his government would quickly be “found out”, collapse, and there would be another election. Worst case, there would be a chance to have a vote again in no more than 5 years, remember the lies and the deceit, and get it right next time.

      An in/out referendum is completely different. Our only option will be to look back in 40 years and talk about how the world changed in one day when the electorate of the U.K. were lied to on a colossal basis, and relied on those lies in making a decision.

      Bear in mind today is the third day since the result was announced and so far They have admitted that their battle us slogan was a mistake and in fact they will not be giving 350m a week extra to the NHS, and On immigration, the least condemnable comment they have made is that whilst they have a figure that they want to get to, they have no plan whatsoever as to how they will achieve it.

      So I, along with more than 2.9m others, will remain angry, and try to do something about this by calling for a second referendum.

      Like

      1. I’m a Remain voter but let’s be clear on one thing – Leave NEVER said they’d fund the NHS to the tune of anything like £350 million a week. It was simply never said.

        And Eleanor you base your vote figures on a straw poll of 1,652 people, using it to berate those over 50. Really?! Get some decent fucking data before you make a complete cunt of yourself in print. Oh sorry, you already did make a cunt of yourself.

        I’m over 50, I voted Remain but was on the losing side. I can either piss and moan about it and write a self-pitying blog, or I can get on with it and contribute to making the U.K. a decent place to live in. Not trying to be a blinkered ageist twat like the OP, but it appears that those of us of, shall I say, a more mature mindset are the ones willing to roll up our sleeves and get on with it. Still, if blogging floats your boat then get on with it, girl.

        Like

      2. Nasty comment, nasty language. Still, I expect it made you feel better about yourself. I would be interested to know exactly what you are going to do differently now, in order to make Britain great, because lots of people are saying that, but when I ask, not one of them can tell me how to do it in practical terms. So I have had to conclude that it is a vacuous soundbite designed to impress, which it does not.

        Like

    3. The problem is it’s not as black and white as the minority telling the majority what they should be doing. The problem is that this is a massive, life-changing decision that has divided a nation pretty much down the middle. Almost half of those who voted remain have a lot of concerns and unanswered questions, and now feel like they are just going to be ignored. The majority of 72% of eligible voters may have said leave but it wasn’t an overwhelming majority, it was a 2% swing. And many of those Leave voters now wish they hadn’t gone that way, and feel they have been deceived. This isn’t the same as a general election where we have to accept who is elected PM and get to choose a different one in five years time – this is permanent, there’s no going back. If we really are a democracy, doesn’t that mean that the people should be listened to, all of them, no matter what their views? Because the majority telling the minority to “shut up and move on!” sounds more like fascism to me.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. The ‘Minority’ telling the ‘majority’ what to do is Fascism! The majority imposing their will on the minority is Democracy. As Winston Churchill said ‘Democracy isn’t perfect, (it may not be much good at all),but it’s better than all the others’!

        Like

    4. We THINK we live in a democracy (admittedly, it’s better than most!). But there are many un-democratic things going on. For example, ‘Developers’ by means of their financial muscle can over-ride democratically elected councils – and there are many other instances. And when fewer than 38% of the electorate vote for something and ‘win’, is THAT democracy? The Brexit vote was less than 38% of voters. Perhaps voting should be compulsory? And results should be declared void if politicians admit AFTER the election that they were ‘wrong’ in what they said on campaign. (Doesn’t ‘wrong’ mean ‘lied’?).

      Like

      1. With you that they lied. They lied in ’75 and they have lied again (maybe not all of them-trying to think of Corbin’s lies-no can’t think of one). But ‘Compulsory voting’ as in Australia, is that democratic? Surely those who don’t vote are execising their democratic rights? The house of lords,like the european commission,are political appointee’s, but are they also not the council of elders respected in most communities throughout history? Many elders I spoke to were still annoyed that they had been lied to in ’75. They were told it was a ‘common market’ when in fact it was a project for the political unification of europe.Many voted out because of that lie saying had they known they would never have voted in in the first place. Also that as they had voted us in, it was up to them to vote us out!
        The problem of lies, damn stastistics, and dissinformation (propoganda) lay’s with the people themselves. It was incumberant on everyone who voted to inform themselves, not just to listen to the people with agendas of their own. That politicians lie should be obviouse to anyone who has ever believed a pre-election promise only to find it reneged on on post election! It happens every single time by every single political party in every single election! Some people say that governments think we are stupid-others say no-They KNOW were stupid because we voted for them again, knowing they lied in the last election they had won. If the statement that we get the results we deserve is true, then our lack of desire to think for ourselves is ultimatly to blame for this referendum result. Nevertheless, it is democratic and we have no choice but to accept it.

        One thing I would like to add(as a remain voter) is that the initial reactions from europe does expose how deeply undemocratic it is. A reporter, (Matt Fry(?)Channel 4 news), interviewing the (unelected) Polish commissioner for his thoughts on Brexit. After giving his statement, as he was walking away said “Don’t expect Polish airmen to fight for Britain in the future” I was flabergasted, I thought Britain entered the 2nd world war to liberate Poland from the Natzis, thats why the Polish airmen fought along side the allies. He had clearly forgotten that part of the story! If he is representative of the modern european bureaucrat the result may not be such a bad result as I thought.

        Liked by 1 person

    5. Two things here:

      1: This seems to be another example of where the leave vote haven’t done their research. Not that many Brexiters appear to be aware that the outcome of this referendum is not legally binding. There is no provision in the referendum legislation that parliament has to act on the result. As with the referendum on our EEC membership in 1975, it is effectively advisory. Given the very close split it would seem appropriate that, informed by our voice, parliament (the we elected to make big, important decisions on our behalf, and the people we pay to be better informed about those than us), should debate how to proceed, and that article 50 should not be triggered without an Act of Parliament.

      (Source)
      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/23/eu-referendum-legally-binding-brexit-lisbon-cameron-sovereign-parliament

      2. Yes, we live in a democracy, and part of a democracy is the right to speak with a dissenting voice. A democracy still has a responsibility to listen to the minority. Simply saying “live with it and work towards a better UK”, is not democratic. In the authors opinion (and mine, and almost half of the country), living with it means working towards a worse UK. So prepare to hear a LOT of dissenting voices.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Given the mass hysteria from all sides i’d suggest almost nobody knew this to be an advisory referendum including the EU itself who wanted article 50 activating immediately. Please stop implying ignorance of the facts (where they can be found) comes from only one side of the argument. Many of the comments here prove that is absolutely not the case. Naivety and bias can rear it’s head anywhere.

        Like

      2. No one minds a dissenting voice.

        But there is a difference between that and the unashamed bigotry being sprayed that over 17m people must be Old, thick , racist (or all three) because they haven’t agreed with 16.m.

        I don’t think the antagonising vitriol since the result does anyone any favours.
        If anything if makes the scars and the divides deeper.

        Like

    6. You clearly have not read, or understood the article. You also have no idea what a dictatorship is either as your definition is way off. The point is the majority were lied to on a massive scale and therefore have been mislead into voting in a certain manner. This is beyond question as the major players in the leave campaign are already making their excuses as to why their promises won’t be met. They blame each other for making promises and say “well that was the others making promises but I didn’t say those things!”. Why did they not make this clear before the voting and wait until the morning after to make these disclaimers? Because they knew people would vote differently and they would definitely lose the vote. Unfortunately there are enough stupid people in the UK who time and again will just take a politician’s word for it and not learn the lessons from previous campaigns!

      Liked by 1 person

    7. With the Lies that the Leave campaign have told, in court they would be held in contempt and there would be a retrial or a chance to appeal. After last years GE the Tories were held to their promise not to cut tax credits by the house of lords, because they attempted to BETRAY the British people – who had voted in good faith.

      This referendum was a travesty of contempt for democracy. And now you are crying that we should accept it, because if it is found to be the shitstorm of LIES that it is, in the court of public opinion, then the Leave voters might not get what they want.

      Democracy expresses the will of the people. Here they were conned. False trial. Invalid. Why don’t YOU try accepting that.

      So you see

      Like

    8. If you gave a national referendum on reinstating capital punishment the result would almost certainly be a majority in favour of its return. The point is, such a referendum should not be held.

      This referendum on leaving the EU was unnecessary and was only held to allow Cameron a pot shot of getting a working majority in government. We will be paying the price for this entirely selfish act for many years to come.

      Like

      1. Aren’t we lucky to have such great statesmen! He called that referendum to gain power at the last election. He got just over a year and he’s managed to seriously damage the EU and possibly herald the dissolution of the UK. What a plonker! Well he’s got his place in history now, the selfish petty small minded bufoon. He has to be the stupidest PM since Chamberlain! Wonder what they will write on his headstone?

        Like

    9. People on the “left” have not stopped moaning about the Conservatives being elected since the election. Why should the 48% stop talking about this disaster?!?!

      Like

    10. The majority may have said leave but in many cases based on lies, racism which has no place in a modern society and fundamentally flawed press who may know the truth but still promulgate the lies. When the majority said join in the earlier referendum it didn’t stop leave people working against it and it won’t make me stop speaking out against it now and the political opportunists like Give and Booking Boris! I am 65 so all I can say is sorry to the youngsters but I voted remain and so did my wife.

      Like

      1. I concur with your comments. I am 59 and voted Remain. I have devasted about the result. There are now over 3,000,000 signatures calling for a Second Referendum and numbers are growing rapidly. I believe a second referendum is justified given that The Leave campaign mislead the population by claiming : 1) That leaving the EU would release £350million to be spent on the NHS each week. 2) That leaving the EU would reduce immigration. Both claims have been retracted (the day after the vote!). Link to the petition : https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

        Like

    11. With something so important as this referendum which affects so many people it should have had to be an overwhelming percentage for either remain or leave for it be be legitimate it should not be a narrow scrape through as this result was as it clearly shows a divided country! Whichever way it went, it needed to be a higher majority to show that is what the MAJORITY of the country wanted! Total farce and I just wonder how all the leave voters will be when jobs, paid holiday, sick leave, maternity and paternity leave, pensions are all affected…not to mention a possible return to stupid interest rated of 13-15% in the 80’s when so many people lost their homes….!!! Just waiting for Tha day si I can turn round and tell the whinging fuckwits that Tha was what the voted for!!!

      Like

    12. A referendum is not at all the same thing as a general election and it does not have any recognised status in our democratic process. It can only be advisory. It is parliament that is sovereign according to our constitution. MP’s will have to vote on the legislation (4 Acts) that will be needed to repeal our EU membership and when they are considering that legislation, they are obliged to give only consideration to the results of the referendum. Since the majority of MP’s are not in favour of leaving the E U, I wonder how this is going to play out?

      Like

    13. A referendum is an advisory tool – the result does not have to be implemented…..17m out of total population of 63m voted to leave – OK many were not eligible to vote, but still no way was this an overall majority – constitutional guidelines should have been set beforehand to guide us through a close result based on percentage turnout…..whole thing badly managed by our supposedly democratically elected leaders….. both parties should split & regroup, there should be a General Election & whoever wins an overall majority should take the decision as to whether to trigger Article 50.

      Like

  3. I signed the petition only because i think the government should be aware of the outrage of the people, and as a sign of protest. However I don’t agree that it should be a second referendum, as the first referendum should not have happened in the first place. This referendum should not have been called because of a party’s internal indifference. As someone said: “A silly question was asked and a silly answer was given..”
    We live in a representative democracy. There is a reason why we don’t have referendums frequently and ask the public to decide about questions which have such staggering long-term economical consequences for the entire country. We leave it to the experts. We leave it to people who represent us and (should) have the intellect and expertise to decide about questions like this.
    I also don’t agree with the argument that there was not enough information about the pros and cons. This is simply not true. There was a HUGE amount of information, people just simply did not make the effort to educate themselves and to apply critical thinking.
    The ‘Scientists for EU’ Facebook page for example posted thousands of independent studies, statistics, facts, etc. All was there.
    I think the most important conclusion though: we have to recognize that this Leave vote was a protest vote not against the EU but the current political establishment. (Couple of years ago the majority of the Leave voters didn’t have ANY problems with the UK being in the EU…. this begs the question: why now? 5 years ago the question of bendy bananas didn’t bother them..)
    Having a second referendum would not change the views of the people who have voted Leave and would not ease their every day burdens which have been increased by the austerity measures of the UK governments. However the right-wing populist political movements would still ride the dissatisfaction of these people for their own political gains..
    The EU referendum and the Leave vote was a ventilation of the anger and dissatisfaction of the people with the current establishment. And this has shocked the political establishment and the people.
    I agree with you. The notion “Ok, the people have voted, let’s just move on.” is absolutely dissatisfactory, but not for the reasons we may think..
    Why not pause and actually look at it and analyze why the people were so desperate to cast a Protest vote with such disastrous consequences? Leaving the EU wont resolve the issues of these people, we all know that. It wont dissolve their anger. If anything else: a recession (even if it is only short-term) will only make their struggles more desperate and will make their dissatisfaction with their situation grow… And this anger will come back and will erupt. We can also clearly see that there are plenty of political movements who will be happy to ride that anger. And that is dangerous. Great-Britain should learn from continental history and understand the underlying causes for this protest vote..

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Absolutely right on the button; keep active; keep very active. Referring briefly to the protest vote it’s a bit like cutting off your head because you have a toothache. The referendum must be discussed in Parliament – a chance for Cam to redeem himself perhaps. If we must have a referendum let him set up an all-party team and give it enough time to establish a fair and democratic way forward.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. doesn`t it mak me sick when the losing remainers start saying that they were lied to by the Brexit camp but they don`t think that the PM and Osbourne didn`t lie they must be joking

      Liked by 1 person

  4. David Cameron quite likely stepped down so that the delightful Brexiteers will cop the shitstorm that is coming, which is likely to finish them off as it will expose that they have no plan, no strategy for dealing with it. Don’t get me wrong, I think he’s a wanker for playing out his internal party problems on the European stage and leaving not only British people but people of many other nationalities in this dreadful mess. And I’m over 60 an voted remain. Even my 91 year old mum voted remain.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Absolutely right on. Well said. Will you sign the petition? Will you write to your MP requesting that he/she questions the validity of the referendum in the light of “Leave” lies? As a believer in democracy I have often winged but never acted. I am so infuriated by this business that I am even contemplating going on a demo. having got through my life, including the 70’s, without being tempted to march in one. Perhaps your 91 year old mum will join us on the demo.

      Liked by 1 person

  5. Okay, so I’m going get one or two things off my chest regarding the referendum.

    Whichever way everyone voted (for the record I voted out) the issue has been decided now and we all need to move on.

    My complaint is regarding the condescending attitude being made the remain camp.

    I’ve read now many complaints of the remain camp and they all seem to centre around the following themes.

    Remain camp
    • Old people have screwed with my future.
    • All those who voted leave are racists.
    • All those who voted leave are stupid, and have been duped by the leave campaign.
    • All those who voted leave are uneducated and therefore incapable of making a decision of this magnitude.

    How I would counter:
    • “Old People” built the society you’re living on, built the roads and rails that you travel on, the buildings in which you work, the homes you live in and every aspect of society and technology on which you rely in your daily life. That young people somehow know better than these old people is both deeply flawed reasoning and hugely offensive. It could be countered that the old people are the only ones who can make an objective choice since they are the only group of people who have lived both with and without the EU so are the only ones who can compare the two.
    • This kind of behavior is the lowest of the low, while I can agree that an (albeit very vocal) minority of leave voters are racists, tarring everyone with the same brush in this instance is exactly the same kind of spurious reasoning as saying that all Muslims are terrorists. I don’t believe though that those who make this accusation don’t really believe this, and are merely trying to say something that is offensive in order to provoke a response, which adds nothing to a reasoned debate.
    • Wow, just wow. Can a group of people really be so arrogant that they believe that only people who agree with them could be intelligent? Perhaps, just perhaps it could be that people from a different background to you have had a different experience in life and/or have different priorities. Or perhaps they are older and have experienced more than you. Maybe they acknowledge that membership of the EU has some pro’s as well as con’s but they feel on balance that the costs of membership outweigh the benefits. If you do really believe that over 30 million of this islands residents are really so stupid, then we are probably doomed and you should just pack a bag and apply for citizenship for a country which hasn’t yet jumped ship.
    • This really goes to the crux of the matter. I think it’s obvious to both sides here that the UK is divided between 3 groups:
    o Group 1 is the residents of the Greater London & the wealthy areas of large cities.
    o Group 2 is Scotland and Northern Island.
    o Group 3 is the rest of the UK.
    Group 2 is the easiest to deal with; Scotland for a long time now has sided with ABE- Anyone But England; Northern Island has it’s own issues.
    Group 1 has a higher proportion of middle and upper class people than the UK average in their demographic make up, a higher proportion of graduates, better paid, more rewarding jobs.
    Group 2 has a higher proportion of working class people, fewer graduates, a lower proportion of graduates, lower paid less rewarding jobs.

    This is where the assumption that a lack of education means voting for exit. To get to the truth however you have to dig a little deeper. People with fewer life opportunities are disenfranchised with the status quo, which includes Westminster, the EU and government in general. Having fewer graduates is not the cause where the effect of higher levels of leave voters, but that a lack of opportunities is the cause that leads the effects of both a higher number of leave voters and a lower level of graduates.

    There is a well documented effect where those who are better off feel more of the benefits of immigration and membership to the EU (low labour costs etc) and experience fewer of the negative impacts (competition for cheap housing, school places, depression of the wages of the low end of the income scale).

    In summary, it seems to me that to have a national debate on a highly divisive issue was always going to be challenging, and being a binary result like so many competitions are there was always going to be a winning and a losing side. I think it is incumbent on all of us to rise above the petty squabbling and cheap name-calling and either celebrate the promising new future we have just opened the door to, or make the best we can of the disaster we have just blundered into – depending on which camp you’re in.

    Personally, I didn’t like the way that the EU was heading, but I’m not proposing that we pull down the shutters and shut up stop, instead I’m hoping to reforge a new relationship with Europe, keeping those parts which enrich all our lives and reject those parts that don’t sit well with my principles.

    Ok I’ve said my piece,

    Stay classy People
    .

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Your ‘classy’ post fell down a bit when you dismissed all Scots as ABE – so you have bought into the easy explanation as to why many (remember Scotland chose to stay in the UK in 2014) in Scotland wanted independence. There was a minority yes, albeit very vocal!! of anti english people but you are being a wee bit hypocritical there by classing us all as uneducated racists!!! many Scots were, to use your words, disenfranchised by the status quo i.e., Westminster where their wishes in many general elections were ignored and they had an opportunity to change it but they want to retain the opportunities that being in the EU offers – single market, free movement, etc. I myself wanted to stay in the UK and EU but now…..its very difficult – I feel some despair right now as there is so much division across the different countries that make up the UK but I accept that people have voted and the majority in the UK want to leave EU so let’s move on.

      Like

    2. Your comment loses all credibility when you dismiss Northern Ireland as part of the ‘easiest to deal with’ group. How do you propose to salvage the peace process of a hard border is imposed that few on the island, north or south, want? The Nationalist community in NI has been content to like in an NI with a healthy economy and a notional border with the south, and Brexit threatens both those things. How is your dismissal less condescending than saying a large number of Leave voters were racist or deluded when the whole Leave campaign was based on racism and lies?

      Like

    3. TLDR

      I got as far as the utterly false misquotes of “All people X…All people Y…” and the idiotic cracked-record narrative of “we all need to move on” and concluded your attitude is EXACTLY the problem.

      If you find that condescending then good. Because I think you’re really stupid.

      Stupid.

      Like

    4. The remain camp have been rather vocal and offensive in some of their comments about the ‘Leave’ voters.
      It needs to be understood better that many of the Leave voters were protest voters, something that you don’t address in your comment. It’s a great pity that this protest vote was made on the back of disinformation from both camps during the referendum campaign. The only real gainers from this result will be right wing tories whose radical policies had to be tempered in the past by a generally socialist EU.
      If anything can be learned from this it’s to use your vote. Though I doubt that this will happen.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Hi Jack! You are right, more data and worries have come through since Friday when I wrote this blog post. I don’t feel I can add any more updates to this post now, but I didn’t address this, nor the lack of young voters on Friday, and so this is something I am going to do in my next post. Thank you for reading and commenting!

        Like

    5. Very well put, Graham. It is just most unfortunate that where I live I have seen and heard rather racist remarks, or at least immigrant-unfriendly remarks, which I find hard to live alongside. Of course not every Leave voter is a racist.
      I heard something from my daughter (aged 50), which was that among her children’s generation, many of them didn’t vote because they simply didn’t know which way to vote, not from apathy.

      Like

    6. Hi Graham, I voted a different way from you, but I like and respect your post.

      I’d just like to offer that I think this: “Group 2 is the easiest to deal with; Scotland for a long time now has sided with ABE- Anyone But England” falls into exactly the same trap that you are complaining about. The political situation in Scotland is complex. I’d suggest to you that the Scots have intelligent and credible reasons for their political preferences for a wide range of cultural, economic, social, ethical and other (valid) reasons.

      There is a vocal minority in Scotland which expresses an ABE sentiment, just in exactly the same way as you observe: “that an (albeit very vocal) minority of leave voters are racists,”. You can’t write of the clear difference of political expression in Scotland (particularly after last Thursday) credibly as being founded mainly on anti-English bigotry. That’s simply not an accurate analysis. You do go on to say that: “Group 2 has a higher proportion of working class people, fewer graduates, a lower proportion of graduates, lower paid less rewarding jobs.” Those factors also apply directly to those who voted ‘leave’ in England. Why are they correlated with ‘leave’ in one part of the UK and ‘remain’ in another? Bigotry is not a credible reason. Other complex factors obtain.

      I personally have felt for over 30 years that the example of a socially-progressive and independent Scotland far from ‘abandoning’ the rest of the UK, would both reflect the differing cultural and political desires of the Scottish population and it would also set an example and PROVIDE DATA for a UK-wide political argument (i.e. on how social-mobility is actually impacted by free university education, for example?). Many of those, who I respect and love, who felt passionately for the ‪#‎bettertogether‬ argument (the one which guaranteed that Scotland’s EU membership would be ‘safer’ within the context of the UK) may yet come to feel extremely relieved that there has been such a distinct and clear expression of political will in Scotland as the practical politics of that sentiment now unfold, both in Holyrood and Westminster. We live, thankfully, in complex times and I hope you agree that citing bigotry for mass political expression in any part of our country is not credible – or classy? MJS

      Like

    1. The issue has been decided now move on …..do we challenge the decision after every political election because our party doesn’t get in, no we accept the democratic voting process. If more people got off their butts to vote in the first place then perhaps it would have been different.

      Like

      1. Oh FFS wake up from cloud brexiter land.

        With the Lies that the Leave campaign have told, in court they would be held in contempt and there would be a retrial or a chance to appeal. After last years GE the Tories were held to their promise not to cut tax credits by the house of lords, because they attempted to BETRAY the British people – who had voted in good faith.

        This referendum was a travesty of contempt for democracy. And now you numbskulls are crying that we should accept it, because if it is found to be the shitstorm of LIES that it is, in the court of public opinion, then the Leave voters might not get what they want.

        Democracy expresses the will of the people. Here they were conned. False trial. Invalid. Why don’t YOU try accepting that.

        Like

  6. I am rather frustrated with all the publicity of the statistics being published as to the age of those who voted, I can confirm I am 49 and voted leave, however my mother is 86 and another neighbour is 85 who I can confirm I assisted in their completion of their ballot papers as requested to remain. So I would question if the facts given re percentage against age is a true reflection, or is it based yet again on a poll, which I can honestly say does not give a true reflection of the facts. This to me shows how I wish the information through the referendum could be based on fact, but there we go, neither side remain/leave could give a true picture of how this country would end up if we stayed or left, I believe it was all down to supposition/unknowns.

    Like

    1. The statistics don’t suggest that ALL older people voted leave. The tiny sample of people you discuss is meaningless in comparison. People are always getting confused with the application of large sample statistics in their own personal circumstances and experiences.

      Like

  7. Something I really wonder about is how do people know the percentages of the voters ages? Reason I ask, is a day before the vote by boss asked all of us how we intended to vote. All but 4 people in the entire company told her that we were voting out. She was a little shocked by it.
    I understand why you are angry but you need to really move on from it. I was incredibly disappointed when the AV referendum went the way it did for example. Also I have never voted for the Conservatives or Labour party, yet every election since I was born has gone to one of those two parties and my vote is always wasted as I’m in a solid Conservative seat which has never changed (solid Blue seat here).
    Every bit of EU legislation will be opted into UK law as part of the Article 50 negotiations process.

    Like

  8. I really struggled to read this utterly appalling excuse for an opinion.

    I will comment on just one point! When you moan about the elderly having a vote you might try remember that YOU wouldn’t even have a vote if many of them had not fought for our country.

    How dare you inflict your discrimination – which is what you have done – on a group of people to whom you should be grateful! Shame on you!

    If you want to display anger at an appallingly run campaign – on BOTH sides – I will whole heartedly agree with you. There was no dignity, there was no respect and there was a bombardment of unclear facts, false statements, scaremongering and poor media reporting that loead to making this an issue which was entirely unvoteable.

    So what was the outcome? People voted in anger and frustration over being oppressed, lied to, confused by facts and bewildered and now you have the audacity to blame then with your rudeness and cause further divide? Very poor show!

    We need to move on and show some respect for each other. We need to trfust in democracy and learn that there are always options whatever the result. A referendum is ONLY an opinion poll.

    What we need before we even consider giving notice of article 50 is to sort our Government out and get our house and our facts in order. We then need to table a discussion with the EU on reform, especially in light of other countries potentially following suit. Angela Merkel said there is a duty to try and build on the unification of Europe and we have no place in wanting to be part of that if we cannoty demonstrate appropriate behaviour towards our own people; each and everyone of whom has a right to their own opinion and vote.

    All is not lost but articles like this do nothing for the British reputation. You might be angry and that’s your choice but don’t make yourself discriminatory, vile and inconsiderate in the process. By all means state what you don’t agree with but don’t ever dare pick on our veterans again! If we had ended up under Hitler’s German occupation of Europe you woud have no vote and there would be no democracy as they have to endure in many countries.

    Lastly! If you are going to single areas out it would be ENGLISH and Welsh because everyone is British, including the Welsh.

    Let’s be united to get a stronger Britain and a stronger Europe. We can do it.

    Like

    1. Man! I said I was ashamed to be British AND Welsh…as in- I am both. I am British. I am Welsh. I am ashamed…
      I never said everyone shouldn’t have a vote. I said I was angry at the results of the vote. And I do have that right to be angry.
      And I am sorry, but I really truly feel that most of our veterans were part of the 33% that voted remain, because they remember how hard the UK worked for peace with the rest of Europe. Truly, all the war veterans I have spoken to have said that. So maybe I should rephrase? I AM ANGRY AT THE BABY BOOMERS. Who were born after the war…
      PLEASE, please reread, and try to actually take in all of the points, not just the headings?

      Like

      1. Point accepted in terms of baby boomers. I still don’t like the arrogance of anyone thinking they are more important for ANY reason regardless of age or time left alive. That is just pure arrogance. In 5 years time everything could change again so to think you are more imortant “in the moment” is frankly redundant!

        I voted leave and I am still happy with that decision. Why? Did I think we would suddenly have £350m? No I didn’t. Do I believe we should stop immigration or suddenly deport any member of this wonderfully diverse culture? Absolutely not!

        Do I think the referendum was badly managed? Absolutely. The level of information from both sides was attrocious. To focus on immigration or keep implying we would be immediately wealthier was a disgrace. Equally; to keep scaremongering, to threaten increased tax, to threaten pensions, to threaten benefits was something that picked on all but the elitists in our society – something this Government has been systematically doing – more so since having a majority.

        So what do I think caused such a high out vote? Well take a closer look at the demographic of each area and consider what might drive the vote one way or the other. It isn’t that difficult to see a real picture of what people’s concerns were likely to be – and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with age. Maybe look a little at wealth levels, job skills, localised unemployment levels and you start to build a picture of what people may be worrying about that would cause them to vote leave or remain. Still surprised that the highly affluent areas of London, for example, voted Remain?

        Do I think there is a high amount of racism or xenophobia behind it? No – I think that has been stirred up by the press and abhorrent posts on Facebook andTwitter bhy a relative minority and then shared by people not realising that sharing such posts gives an implied sense of high volume activity. I am not naieve enough to believe it doesn’t exist but again the poorly lead campaign allowed these small minded individuals to piggy back on the media and gain an inflated idea of their own importance.

        One question worth asking is: how was our Government SO out of touch with how the voters felt? Maybe that should be posed to the Constituent MPs. How often does your MP get seen about canvassing your district and learning about the needs of the community he/she is responsible for?

        Want to know who I would target my anger at?

        Am I concerned about the huge drop in sterling? Not really. Idiot traders, who thought they were in for quick profit after an assumed vote to remain, inflated sterling prior to the vote by buying and then panic sold after the result driving an excellerated decrease. Will it increase again? Yes of course because now the value is low and as people realise that we aren’t suddenly going to stop trade or relations with Europe they will start buying again and this will drive the value back up. Naturally it will be a rocky road as the market stays volatile through unsurety but no one with any sense saw this as a short term outcome anyway.

        Do I believe we ultimately need to leave the EU? No not necessarily. For me – even though I voted leave – the vote was marginal in outcome and I would certainly not be happy to think I’m all right jack and have no consideration for the equal number of voters who voted remain. I would rather build adult relationships and seek common ground that builds both a stronger Britain and a bigger and better Europe.

        Ultimately it is my belief in working together to move forward that drives my anger and irritation at messages like your one which frankly drive more divide and are not exactly going to resolve anything when realistically you have targetted your anger at the oppressed rather than the oppresser.

        In essence you see – I believe we all agree with elements of the concerns you express – I suspecft we would just prefer you expressed your concerns constructively and collaboratively rather than in the accusatory and blaming format you chose.

        Its an opinion, your entitled to yours, but I believe you want to see a united country and a united Europe and angry rants aren’t eally going to achieve that.

        🙂

        Like

      2. Just one last point! Reading down the comments you are receiving a lot of criticism and responding with “did you read”. Cn I suggest you look up the word “Subjectivity”. I expect you mean well but wehn you start a piece in anger and stir emotion you will have the effect of making people mis-read and react in a way they might not normally. Why? Because anger is never a place to be to share a clear and focussed understanding. Either as the poster or the reader. xxx

        Like

  9. I agree with your anger, Eleanoir.
    Only one comment. I think that Cameron resign was a very smart idea. In fact, this way he is not forced to apply for the Article 50. So, people will have the time to fully understand what is happening and, most likely, the Parliament will have enough support to vote to not leave the EU.
    At least, I hope so.

    Like

    1. Except he hasn’t resigned, yet.

      People need to wake up to what a total shitstorm this might become very soon. With both main political parties in meltdown at a time when strong leadership is desperately needed, this situation might well become extremely dire as overseas markets become more jittery at the instability it will cause. Expect the cost of borrowing to rocket up as our credit rating gets junked with the knock on effect that our deficit becomes comparable to Greece. Except we won’t be able to rely on the EU to bail us out of course.
      All this talk of a second referendum will just add to this instability. We need strong leadership now.

      Like

  10. Great article! You might want to add this

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1336550/isis-brexit-jihadis-celebrate-in-shock-leave-vote-and-call-on-thugs-to-carry-out-massive-attacks-to-finish-off-europes-economy/

    Maybe under the Trump point…
    I am of the outspoken sort myself and there has been only one word I uttered when the results became public: ignorants! I have lived in 6 countries in the EU and the UK is the only one I don’t feel welcome, despite the fact that I spent all my hard-earned money on an overpriced property in South London. I will do some maths and put it back on the market..

    I speak 6 languages and have 2 postgrad diplomas- and people want to get rid of me. Maybe schools should be more intent on teaching English kids foreign languages, speaking them has opened my eyes and my mind to accepting others how they are. And truth is: I have never met an English person fluent in a foreign language. This is bizarre especially for someone who has lived in Geneva for 7 years…

    The answer I get is: well then, you are free to leave. From now on mine will be: Thank you, I most definitely will.

    Like

    1. Isabella. Sorry you have had such a bad experience in the U.K. I have lived in many countries and agree that learning a language is the most mind-expanding study there is as it gives you such a broad way to view life and the world.I have been welcomed everywhere I have lived, even when I didn’t know the language.I also find that languages are not favoured by the British-but we do have one of the most widely spoken language in the world. However , that you never met one who speaks another language makes me wonder where you were or the socio-economic circles you moved in. I the words of Sadiq Khan the London mayor “You are welcome here”.
      I have found many people who have come to the UK say that it is the least racist country in europe.
      I hope it is true and that it remains so.

      Like

  11. Shout this the loudest – It’s not legally binding! The UK cannot be forced to invoke Article 50.

    Also, Farage – no government power – has stated that the NHS should be replaced with private insurance. Privatised.

    Lobby your MP’s people. Fight back against the far rightwing.

    Like

  12. You lost me at point 1. Some of those older people you speak of made monumental sacrifices in the last century to rebuild Britain. At what age do you decide they’re too old? 65?? 55?? 40?? How dare you presume their vote shouldn’t count. They might have worked 40 or 50 years contributing to this country. They’re ENTITLED to their vote whichever way it went. As is a pimply faced 19yo just a year out of school who has never worked a day in his life yet nor contributed much to the public purse.

    Like

    1. That is a shame. Did you read all of point one? Even the updates? Because I specifically said this was just one of ten points I was angry about. I also said that I didn’t want these people to not be able to vote, or for their vote to not count. But I still have the right to be angry. Just as I have a right to be angry about the people of my generation who didn’t even bother to vote. I actually haven’t even called for a new referendum, because “vote, rinse and repeat” is not as catchy as the original. As you got lost at point one, maybe you would allow me to just repeat what I feel is the takeaway message of my post? As it was at the bottom!
      “But mostly, I am going to stay angry because it is my right. And I will not leave it alone. Because I still care about my country. I can’t just up and leave (even though Canada does look really pretty), it wouldn’t be morally right. I was a part of this. I didn’t speak loud enough before. I may be one of the 48%, but I don’t get to shove this onto someone else. I am responsible. And so I have to stay, and stay angry, to be sure that moving forward, we make the right decisions.”
      I just don’t want to be silenced by those who feel we should just forget about the whole thing, as, I am sure you agree, people have the right to be angry, but we should be using this anger to fight for what we want from future elections and referendums.

      Like

  13. The whole referendum thing was in order to heal the long term divisions on Europe that have crippled the Conservative Party for decades. Do you think it worked out well? Your answers need to be reflected next time you vote in an election I would suggest.

    Like

  14. I have shared this on my blog and facebook page …. keep it up as a 53 year old european I salute you and hope we can sort this mess out, the UK parliament still needs to vote on it

    “This is the heading of a blog from one of the disillusioned younger generation in her blog, where she states brilliantly how her fellow under 50’s feel bitter and ripped off by racists and older out of touch generation …. here is an excerpt :”

    http://simonothen.com/wp-admin/post.php?post=1685&action=edit

    Like

  15. Whilst I sympathise with much that you say, I do have a problem with the fact that it appears that only 36% of the 18-24 age group actually bothered to vote at all. So much effort went into getting young people to register and vote and that’s the best they can do? That is a real tragedy.

    Like

    1. Can I ask where you got this statistic? Because I have searched and searched, Sky news got a similar one from polls, but won’t give any info on how they asked and who they asked, or even how those percentages relate, and the BBC got it from a census that was taken in 2011…about a general election. Such a huge percentage of our population voted in this referendum compared to the last few general elections, these stats are not statistically valid. We have to be so careful about where we drag these figures from. People were angry about the infographic I used in point one (with the ages and how they voted), and I actually stated in the post that it was not concrete, but it was at least from a recent poll leading up to the referendum. I was a biologist before I became a writer, and part of my job was dealing with stats and how to use them correctly. I know how easy it is to manipulate them, so unless you can see the whole study and can actually work it out yourself, I would advise caution.

      Like

  16. I hear you Eleanor but please don’t get dragged into sweeping generalisations. A xenophobic vote? I think that’s too simplistic…I love living in a multicultural country,I love Europeans, they make my home town more interesting…however can you not see we are a small island and there has to be a cap…I want to see us help the persecuted, help the Syrians, give them asylum, but how can we help the worlds most needed if we don’t make room for them by controlling the general stream of migrants. By doing this when there is a huge humanitarian need to take people in like Syria we are able too.it’s gone crazy, 2000 new homes have been built in my area, not one new school, not one new hospital not one new GP surgery,…it’s not rocket science. We are an island, we don’t have the I fast rupture to support our exploding population of course it’s not all EU migrants but if Cameron had been bold enough to admit where the government and the EU were failing us we would have been on his side. But he didn’t. He did not acknowledge a problem or address it …farage unfortunately did, people just want to be heard..that said the EU an unelected bureaucracy that contributes to people’s feelings of powerlessness. There is nothing xenophobic about that.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. How is it that no-one has a problem that 100s in the House of Lords are not elected nor the Head of State in the UK and yet this is called Democracy in UK, but 5 Commissioners in EU who only PROPOSE legislation but which is VOTED on by the ELECTED European parliament is not Democracy?

      Liked by 1 person

  17. These so called old people were fucked over too back in 1975 & two of them were my parents , spose tobe 7 countries not 28 etc…etc… etc… History is history and the real people spoke in this referendum….people Citizens who also have rights and those in power never thought would vote to be counted, these old people have been there and done it and know how to come through it!!!

    Like

  18. I disagree strongly with your first point. The young have allowed leave to win by not voting, I’ve seen different numbers but only between 32% and 40% of 18-24 year olds voted. They can’t not vote and then moan about the result.

    Like

    1. It’s interesting because I would rather then not vote because they were unsure of the best option than to vote thinking they know leaving is the way only to be shown that everything they were promised was a lie.

      It’s true that most young people who don’t vote, choose not to because they don’t know enough to make an informed decision.

      It’s also true that most young people who vote, do so with the influence of their parents which does question how much it is “their” decision.

      Either way, there is clearly a single point to focus on here which is that what most people were voting when they ticked that leave box was mainly lies or was just their own misconceptions of what leaving the EU actually changes or means…

      Like

  19. Born in Britain but mostly raised in New Zealand I thought I would pass my view as a considered outsider.
    Why is there a need to create a special group of countries like the EU?
    Why not treat the World and it’s people the same.
    Cultures are different and rules and laws cannot be the same in all countries and as such the EU could never end up with one set of practicable laws for all, even though that is the ideal not just for 20+ countries but for the whole World.
    Being out of the EU doesn’t stop Britain from allowing immigration/trade/comradship/eduction/etc. with the EU countries, it means they can continue as before plus include all other countries, but under British terms and contracted terms. I see this as a major plus in removing the restrictive and controlling elements of a select set of countries and as such allowing Britain to have the freedom of choice, the same as all people want.
    Why not create a World Union, to try and ensure standards are met everywhere, people are given freedom of choice, the standard of living is raised for all, less conflict, and everyone gets the same fundamental services such as education and health and at the same cost.
    Democracy is only truly accurate when EVERYONE votes.
    But would that have made a difference! Probably not.
    I think Britain has made the first step in allowing themselves to have the freedom of choice in how it interacts with the whole World, and I truly believe it is a great step in bringing the World countries together.
    Ian Edwards
    Everyone is Equal to Another.
    No Body or Country or Union should Isolate themselves from others.
    The World should be One.

    Like

    1. The worlds first voluntary attempt at a unified universal government is called the ‘United Nations’, so you can see the problem with this idea. Maybe regional groupings eventualy conjoining might actually work. Will take time, I hope we have time.

      Like

  20. No where on the “big red bus” does it say the 350 million would go to the NHS..its all nonsense. …its just suggests we should put more funding into it. …anyone eith hslf a br as in can see that.

    Like

  21. People should stop moaning and blame those that didn’t bother voting. The decision has been made so accept it, another referendum is never going to happen. Bear in mind the media have a lot to answer to by scaremongering, they make predictions that have no substatiation and people believe it. Who says as a country we can’t survive without the EU, who says we can’t become a wealthy country again. Why should we continue to be told what to do by big guns in other countries who lets face it have a salary that could save a poor forgotten about country. By the way the table above was a poll and as Tom Bradbury said on ITV news they got it wrong again! So stop moaning, move on and for god sake accept the decision the Great British Public voted for. This decision was not voted for in parliament or by the politicians but by us so shut up and get on with it and lets got forward and prosper.

    Like

  22. I am sorry that you have generalised all Welsh in this. I voted remain and so did all of my family, including my elderly mother.

    Wales has been screwed by the Tories, our industry had been decimated by the Tories. People are seeing that the steel industry, the last of our big industries, is now on its last legs and again, nothing is being done to help. I believe that this vote had very little to do with Europe and more to do with the Tory government in Wales.
    I don’t agree with the outcome, but will have to live with it. I won’t be throwing my toys out of the pram as I’m used to not getting what I vote for.
    I have never voted tory but keep getting a tory/coalition government.
    You just have to learn to live with it.
    Crack on.

    Like

  23. I am an older voter and l didnt vote leave and was very sad & annoyed with the result l was even sadder the next day when David Cameron resigned l really like him ,also when hearing Farage say it was a mistake about the NHS getting all that extra money that was going to the EU but wont now .

    Like

  24. Agree with everything except 9 – those who voted Leave had access to exactly the same information as I did, and somehow I interpreted them differently. No one can take responsibility for not making you think.

    Like

  25. I am a “baby-boomer” – hideous epithet – and I voted remain. I am apoplectic at this outcome. We must not accept this result.Many in-voters seem to being having second thoughts, even Farage said a 48:52% outcome would be un finished business – he’s probably changed his tune of course. Cameron said there would be no second referendum. He has resigned. It is not for this one man to counter the will of the more than two million people who have so far signed the petition for a further referendum. Two million is greater than the majority obtained by the outers. I call on all concerned parties to reject the present referendum result.

    Like

  26. You have r every right to be angry and we’ll said . Are you aware that a referendum is only advisory ..its not like electing a government? Is only an opinion poll..They are not actually legally obliged to take any action in it at all !!!!

    Like

  27. LOL

    No the young fucked over the young.

    36% turnout from 18-24 year olds.

    Stop blaming the old for voting well.

    Like

  28. Eleanor St Clair

    I like you am unhappy about the decision. I feel that people were lied to and heavily led into making the wrong decision, that the media and other tools were used to coerce people into voting the way that the establishment wanted.

    There is one thing about your article that really upsets me, calling those who voted the way the you and I didn’t want to “Idiots” I fail to see how that can be constructive in any way shape or form. I would like to think that wanting to remain and wanting to be part of a larger union is a sign of community and support and compassion for fellow people. If people are disillusioned and intentionally misled and haven’t had access to resources to have them know better I really don’t feel that labelling them “idiots” helps.

    You have a right to be angry, but I also feel people have a right to be supported and not described in a derogatory manner.

    Like

  29. The EU is a long way from perfect and needs substantial reform. Much of the Leave vote was anger and frustration about the Tory government’s policies and their anger was displaced towards the EU. From all the Leavers I’ve spoken to there was confusion about what they were actually voting for and almost no understanding of the implications and potential fallout. And the Leave leadership were quite happy about that – that was the basis of their campaign. Many are now sorry about their Leave vote as they witness the turmoil and the Leave campaign leaders already junking their promises.

    But all that said my bigger issue is about the referendum itself. Yes the Leave vote won – but it’s a wafer thin margin for such a monumental decision. To run on a simple majority is ludicrous and irresponsible. In the US for example any decision that involves fundamental change needs a clear majority over 60 to 75% depending on the issue in question. So whoever wins and loses knows that a clear majority have decided.

    It would be amazing if there was a 72% turnout for other elections and I hope that people feel engaged enough to make their voices heard about TTIP when the time comes.

    Where we go from here no one knows. A referendum of course is an opinion and not legally binding but what we see are politicians scrambling to keep their jobs in the face of the result. I hear that the “country has decided” – in fact it hasn’t – the country is divided right down the middle and if there was another referendum I think the result would be very different now more people understand what the issues and the implications really are.

    Just for the record I am 65, make it my business to stay current about issues that affect my life and I voted Remain – I would have preferred a third option of Remain and Reform. In the 1970’s I campaigned against joining what was then the Common Market – based on a Common Agricultural Policy which produced the grain mountains and milk lakes that were wasteful beyond insanity.

    Like

    1. Patronising Carol. Your sample of leave voters were either fictional or too tiny to be representative. I found intelligent argument on both sides but that wouldn’t fit the world view I guess. One of my best friends is a staunch leave supporter based on his view of the EU itself and could probably debate the majority of the politically engaged under the table. Doesn’t mean I agree a’s I formed an independent opinion.
      I’m really not clear how we’re meant to make our case if we’re as sensationalist as those politicians we show such disdain for and react like stroppy door slamming teenagers in a bid to change what we don’t like.

      Like

    2. Your third option of ‘Remain and Reform’ could never be on the cards!

      But it would have been sensible to have a requirement that all regions of the UK agreed unanimously to a change of the status quo. Why Cameron didn’t allow this when he had the chance is a mystery. The fact that he also denied 16 and 17 year olds the vote also would suggest he secretly wanted to lose it all along!

      Like

  30. The figures were taken from polls which is only a representation and not necessarily accurate. As you said education and poverty play a big part. The older generation didn’t have as much chance of a University education as youngsters today. I am 65 and voted in my kids interest (IN) as did many of my friends. I know you are angry but it is what it is. There is no need for name calling especially lumping all “old people” together. Many young people in poorer areas voted “OUT” (despite their towns receiving extensive EU funding (Ebbw Vale in Wales – a case in point). Also a larger proportion of young people didn’t bother to vote. Blame them. By the way at 65 I do not class myself as “old” – you wait!!

    Like

    1. I don’t agree with the petition as written – it would have made sense to require a clear majority to change the status quo but not to then trigger a second referendum if it wasn’t achieved. These neverendums are tedious in the extreme. What we need is a return to strong, sensible government and the only way to achieve that is for politicians to re-engage with the public and bring about a much greater participation in general elections.

      Like

  31. I am a European and not British and can one of you answer this question, We in Europe have the Euro, why didn’t Great Brittain have this? It surely would have put you guys into Europe but hey you guys did not wanted to be a part of a United Europe because you guys still have the pound.

    Like

    1. One of the greatest achievements of Gordon Brown was to ensure we did not join the Euro. I hope people remember him fondly for that in the future…

      The Euro is a total disaster – Greece exemplifies what goes wrong when you remove the flexibility to devalue a currency in response to economic weakness. This was well known historically well before the Euro was created, but the great EU leaders decided that history did not apply to them (just look at all the countries that tried to peg their currencies to others during the 20th century).

      Liked by 1 person

    2. Otto.Many in Britain believe in a united federal Europe. The whole EU program is designed to achieve this. Before the Euro there was the ERM -exchange rate-mechanism. This showed us that a single currency can only be created when the variouse currencies ‘converge’. The Labour governments policy was to join the Euro when it and the pound converged. Then came the Banking crises followed by the Euro crises. My view is that the EU jumped the gun and created the Euro for political reasons, they jumped the gun because the EU was growing so fast and they thought they might lose the chance later on. The Political reasons trumped the economic ones and the Euro was created before true convergence/parity was attained. The economic result of this was the ‘Euro Crises’ in which the richer northern countries have profited at the southern nations expense. The rich Greeks bought goods from the more industrialised nations (for example). When the crash came and the money wasn’t available, the troika demanded that the Greek people had to pay. Not the rich who had bought the goods, but the poor who didn’t have much to do with it all.
      For many British people, this has showed the true nature of the EU. A system designed to contain Germany has in fact been dominated by them. Is it economic warfare? Someone had to have seen where these policies would lead? Is the ‘red of southern european countries equall to the ‘Black’ of the northern european countries?
      I have heard this expressed many times. I don’t know the truth and do not endorse this view, but I don’t discount it either!

      Like

  32. I agree with most of what you say and I too am angry and saddened by what has happened. However, it is very antagonistic to blame this on old people, a category I fall into if you look at the table you published above. I voted remain and so did many of my friends. I have heard of many older people asking their teenage grandchildren how they would have voted and using their vote to vote on their behalf, on the basis that in the long term the grandchildren would benefit far more. I would suggest you direct your anger at the injustice of the situation and the lies perpetuated by some politicians instead of targeting specific groups of the population.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. There seems to be a move to make Brexit an agist conflict….
      Politics as ever is many shades of grey. But its easier for people to make it seem black and white tomsuit their own narrative- much in the same way the politicians do.

      It’s being put out that Britains youth voted us in with a 2/3 majority in 1975…but that Britains elderly voted us out this week effectively shafting the youth.

      What they don’t say is that many those elderly were the enthusiastic youth of 1975, now armed to the teeth with 41 years worth of hindsight but it doesn’t fit the rhetoric.

      There is much of this result being pinned on xenophobia (and it has played a part)
      But since the result there has also been a huge wave of bigotry , hostility and vitriol aimed at people of a certain age who helped build this country up.
      The irony though, is no doubt lost on them.

      Like

  33. “Old people fucked us over, and they don’t have to deal with it for as long as we do. ”

    “To people suggesting I am putting all the blame on old people…please!”

    Perhaps we should bring in compulsory euthanasia for the over fifties if they aren’t going to vote how we want.
    Would certainly save us having to get up off our arses and out there to the polling stations.

    In fact there should be reform about the entire voting process.
    People should become ineligible to vote if -:

    They are over 50
    Have a manual job
    Havent been to University
    Live on a sink estate
    Have ever worked in industry
    Have never attended a festival
    Don’t have a twitter account

    There’s probably some I’ve missed, but I’m sure Mr Mugabe would be able to offer us some advice on how to go about it.

    Like

  34. I am Welsh and proud of it but I, and a lot of other people I know, voted ‘REMAIN’ Does that make us idiots? I agree with what you have said – maybe you would agree that not all Welsh people are idiots!!!

    Liked by 2 people

    1. I think we should be proud of being a part of that 48.3% of Welsh people who voted remain, and no, that doesn’t make us idiots. I was, (honestly!), talking about the way the country voted, rather than individual people. I just couldn’t understand how a majority of people voted out when everywhere you go, all the buildings, roads, schools, farms and education projects have little european flags on them because they were funded by…the EU. I don’t understand how a country that has been so badly screwed over by Westminster before could trust them so wholeheartedly to make up the funding it would lose out on. I was upset. But as I said at the end, we don’t get to check out. We have to stay and keep shouting until our voices are heard. And therefore the 48.3% are more important than ever. I am really sorry if you were offended by my calling my country idiots, it was not aimed at you!

      Like

  35. My Dad, 96, voted Remain. Like millions of UK citizens living outside of the UK I was not allowed to vote. I would have voted Remain as I imagine most of the others would have. This would have been enough to swing the vote in favour of Remain.
    Just like when Le Pen almost won the first round of the election in France a few years ago a second vote is needed. Once the electorate realised the situation was serious the following round was very different.

    Like

  36. Eleanor… we need to express our voices on videos… are you up for a YouTube video like me?. Please let me know. Contact me and I’ll do it. People need to watch and see us.
    Thanks.

    Like

  37. I am not a Britton but I feel your pain. Ever since a set my foot on this island I’ve been working my ass off and now to be treated like that… Also I have a feeling that due to all this nonsense I am not even considered for jobs I am applying now that my maternity leave is over. Not even one respond! None. Nada. To all those who are thinking now, well you can sit on benefits… Well I don’t wanna damn pennie from the government. I want my own earned money! I wanna buy house, take my first child on holiday etc. I want to live, not exist…I cannot believe how stupid people are to believe all that RUBISH that both sides were saying and now hardworking, honest people will suffer the consequences…

    Like

  38. Eleanor. I have posted this on FB without actually asking your permission. Sorry about that. Is it OK?

    BTW, I’m a baby boomer who didn’t vote Brexit. I have a feeling those who did were the same ones who insulted me when I had long hair in the 60s.

    Best

    Jon

    Like

    1. Hi Jon, more than alright, most of my visits are coming from Facebook. Honestly, about the polls, I actually think your generation should be angrier about that than mine. Same as my generation should be angrier about the people who didn’t turn up to vote! And the long hair sounds great!

      Like

  39. Well done to all those people in my age bracket (61) who voted out. 41 years of putting up with this EU shit has done nothing for this country. Ship building gone, Coal mining gone, steel industry gone, Fishing industry destroyed, Railways sold , Royal Mail sold, Electricity sold, Gas sold, Water sold, British telecom sold, NHS being sold, and all thanks to the EU. Well fuck you EU glad to see the back of you.

    Like

  40. I’m a Baby Boomer – we all grew up in a United Kingdom prior to the mid-seventies and knew exactly how life was back then – and we’ve seen the changes that have occured since which bearing a shocking resemblance to a Fourth Reich wdictatoirship with ever increasing restrictions on our everyday lives. I can forgive you for being angry as you haven’t known anything different.

    Like

Comments are closed.