NO! I won’t shut up.

I am angry. I am so very angry. I woke up today to an absolute shit storm, and now people are saying, let’s just be quiet. Let’s accept it and move on. Let’s concentrate on what comes next. There is nothing we can do. There really isn’t any point in getting upset about it.

NO! There is a point. I AM ANGRY and I won’t let it go. Today I am ashamed of being British, and of being Welsh. And you know what, I think we NEED to be angry. We were not angry enough about this farce of a referendum before it happened, I damn well am not going to be quiet now.

Reasons I am angry.

1._Old people (specifically baby boomers) fucked us over, and they don’t have to deal with it for as long as we do. 

Yeah. I said it.

Yeah, I know, everyone gets a vote, but when my generation have to live with this shitty decision for another seventy bloody years, I think I am allowed to be angry. So I am going to keep shouting.

UPDATE: I think I angered a lot of the 33% who voted remain, and that was not my intention. This result was also down to education and poverty, but there IS a difference in age and votes. Nobody’s saying ALL baby boomers voted that way…but people still have the right to be angry about the 58%.

UPDATE 2: People are managing to pull these amazing percentages out of thin air of young people who haven’t turned up to vote. Thing is, I’ve looked for sources of these percentages, and the only real numbers I can find are from a census…in 2011. It is true that turnout was lower in the referendum in places where more young people live, but that is the only concrete evidence I can find. We cannot go on these 2011 census results, because far more people voted in this referendum than in previous elections.(The infographic above is from one of the most recent polls, but is still, I will be the first to admit, not concrete). But to the people suggesting I am putting all the blame on old people…please! There are nine other points on this post, and as in any election or referendum, I HATE that people are not using their vote. People have DIED to get us a vote. But this does not make my anger towards the trend that a recent poll has pointed towards any less valid.

2. The lies.

This was just the first of the lies the leave campaign have backtracked on today.

Oh wait, that looks like a big red bus, with, yep, £350 million to go to the NHS. Apart from the fact this was total crap from the start and anyone with a braincell could see it (I mean, seeing as the UK does get a lot of that money back, surely most of the £350 million would go to those areas that lost that money?), I am just angry that that turd faced moron had the cheek to sit there and defend it.

Another lie? Daniel Hannan retracts the claim that leaving the EU will reduce immigration. Yeah mate, I coulda told you that. So nope, still not shutting up.

3. The lack of information

Gove said Brexit would mean we wouldn’t have to follow EU regulations costing UK businesses £600 million a week. Third on that list – the Working Time Directive. The directive that means 1.7 million part-time women workers have a right to paid holiday. Either more lies, or we are moving backwards.

And as for Wales voting leave?

Congratulations Wales! You have put your trust in a Tory government who literally don’t give a fuck about you! How much money do you think Westminster will be sending your way? None! Say goodbye to good roads, free prescriptions and a load of jobs! Remember they did nothing when the steelworkers were under threat, they will do nothing when other jobs are under threat. You are idiots.

4. This was a Xenophobic Vote, or an ignorant one

“I don’t want to sound racist, but there’s just too many foreign people coming to this country,” was what one happy Brexiter told The Guardian on Friday.

 

Ok, so people say their vote was not racist. They based it on economic reasons (as the pound plummets), legal reasons (see point 3). That doesn’t mean that this shit isn’t happening out there today, because people have been told it is ok to act like that. And I am angry – this is not the UK I want to be part of. So I will not shut up.

5. Trump congratulated us on this vote.

Jesus, Britain. You need any more bloody clues on how bad an idea this is?

6. 52% is not a “clear majority.”

7. Our prime minister stepped down, leaving parliament in disarray and no clear plan for the future

“There is no need for a precise timetable today.” Actually fuckwit, yes there is. You knew that this was an option. It was a vote put to the people, a vote that could go one way or another. You should have had a clear timetable for both ways, we should have had a clear plan for the aftermath of this referendum.

8. Scotland might be leaving the UK

And who the hell can blame them?

9. People who voted were not given the facts- and now they regret their vote

“The facts are coming in now and our eyes are actually open,” she explained. “We’re actually seeing what’s happening.” Girl explaining how incredibly naive and gullible she was. But she wasn’t alone. The facts were just not given in this referendum, just jingoism and lies.

Source: (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/im-full-of-regret—extraordinary-moment-brexit-voter-changes-he/)

Yah fool! Another reason to stay angry, plus it leads me nicely onto…

10. We should never have had to vote in this referendum. The referendum should never have been a thing.

This became clear when google reported that “what does it mean if we leave the EU” becomes the most popular search…this morning.

😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡

I voted remain. And by being angry, I am showing Europe and the world that I do not agree. I do not agree with the racists who voted to get rid of immigrants. I never believed the lies UKIP and Farage and Boris told us.

But mostly, I am going to stay angry because it is my right.

And I will not leave it alone. Because I still care about my country. I can’t just up and leave (even though Canada does look really pretty), it wouldn’t be morally right. I was a part of this. I didn’t speak loud enough before. I may be one of the 48%, but I don’t get to shove this onto someone else. I am responsible.

And so I have to stay, and stay angry, to be sure that moving forward, we make the right decisions.

HI! I wrote another blog post. I would love it if you could read, comment and share! https://eleanorstclair.wordpress.com/2016/06/26/if-you-think-angers-over-think-again/

 

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673 thoughts on “NO! I won’t shut up.

  1. social media = keyboard warriors – grow up and walk to the polling booth…. boo hoo we lived a lot before wordpress! blame game worthless

    Liked by 2 people

    1. You do realise that if it wasn’t for the older generation. You would not have a freedom of speech. Or a vote.. Bit of respect please.

      Jean Grierson

      Liked by 2 people

      1. To run that old chestnut you have to be over 89. I don’t think she is only talking to people that old, just the 65+ as the chart says (I’m 62 and voted to remain).
        GRS-J

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      2. That was then in a totally different scenario, it doesn’t give people the right to say to the younger generation you owe us. The generation who fought in the wars did it just so that following generations would have a free choice, not so they would follow blindly along.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. Um, wrong. There are barely any WW2 vets left alive. I absolutely respect them for what they did, but their sacrifice has been disrespected by generations of politicians and greedy capitalists

        Liked by 1 person

      4. Older generation did nothing of significant to bring democracy and peace to the UK, read history, if it wasn’t for the Americans (both white/black/Asians) UK would be a city under Germany and everyone would be in the EU without (referendum)

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      5. How arrogant! You could just as easily say that people gave their lives for peace and harmony in Europe. You do not speak for me and I am 63 year old who voted remain. I like young people and trust their judgement because they have more understanding of international togetherness and don’t look for scapegoats. Your argument is old hat and very disrespectful IMO. It is their world and future that Brexit has thrown into disarray. I am angry with them.

        Liked by 4 people

      6. Actually no. The generation that fought in the war are almost all dead now. I know; my stepfather was one and he’s 96 and outlived almost everyone he knew then.
        The generation that has brought the United Kingdom to the edge of destruction this week is the generation who were children in the war and who were born immediately after it. People who grew up in a world which grew progressively better and more stable, ESPECIALLY after we joined the EEC and then the EU.

        Liked by 1 person

      7. You are 100 years old and fought for democracy at age 2?
        Full democracy came in 1918 with the Representation of the People Act.
        If you are refering to WW2, then yeah, that was a mess. A mess that any living generation sadly had to deal with.

        Liked by 1 person

      8. Rubbish. I assume you are referring to this who fought in the Second World War, most of whom are dead. The older people we have now we’re their children, the baby boomers. The true spoilt rotten, me me me generation who have taken everything they can and happily burned bridges and pulled up drawbridges along the way in order to preserve their privileged way of life. You did nothing for our freedom, so stop pretending you did. More false memories from the oldies.

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    2. LOVE your anger, I am with you 100 per cent! YOur post though really serious made me laugh! LOVE IT! Carry on writing! And write to your local MP and march and …. The human spirit fights on!

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    3. There is no need to be rude you can be angry.!! Show some respect, of course we didn’t expect all the money to go to the NHS it has to be shared around.

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      1. There’s nothing to be shared around. Haven’t you got that yet? There never was. We got most of it back, and if we want to remain in the single market we still have to pay it, but we will also still have the EU laws and we will have lost our veto and our input into those rules.
        If we leave the single market we get to keep those millions, but we lose 1/5th of the country’s income from the financial centre which comes to trillions.

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      2. That wasn’t the promise and many would have expected it to go to the NHS. It’s a little late for your hindsight now,

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  2. I feel exactly the same – we have to fight this. It could trigger a domino effect that I absolutely dread to even think about.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. 1 – Only 36% of 18-24 year olds, and 58% of 25-34 year olds voted. Don’t moan about older people screwing you, moan about the youth of today screwing themselves over – https://twitter.com/SkyData/status/746700869656256512

    2 – Both sides lied. On that bus nowhere does it say that that £350m will fully go into the NHS, but it’s certainly money that could be used there among other areas. Also, the people behind that bus don’t even run the country! It’s like me saying “I’m going to give £350m to Oxfam if we leave the EU” then people getting angry with me if I don’t.

    3 – There was plenty of informaiton, but it was all if buts and maybes, because no one knows what will happen in the long run. There is no point getting worried a few days after, and things will recover and for there we can build, the recovery started a few hours afterwards.

    4 – Can’t argue, a lot of people did vote out due to this reason, but there are just as many Xenophobes in the “Remain” vote as there was in the “Leave”. The issue is that the result gives the Leave Xenophobes a chance to voice as celebration.

    If we’d have remained Twitter & Social Media would have been full of “Now we are in, we have to do something about out boarders and stop people taking easy benefits” – stop being so naive.

    5 – Trump did, but so did so many other people, Daniel Hannan for example who was an EU parliamentary member and told us to vote out, and lost his job because of us leaving.

    6 – This was not a clear majority vote, it was a majority vote. That’s democracy, Remain lost. No wonder you wanted to remain with an attitude where democracy doesn’t win.

    7 – He’s not stepped down yet, even if he hadn’t he’s wouldn’t know what the future holds now. He’s not run away, he’s leaving in September (if I remember rightly), to find someone to step in and make the transition as smooth as possible.

    8 -They came close before, we weren’t worried then.

    9 – This was a problem on both sides, but again, no one knows what is going to happen. It’s unchartered territory.

    10 – Those search results could have been from remain voters, who wanted to see the outcome. If they had done this before, it could have pushed the result further into the leave camp.

    I was a Remain voter, but it’s happened now, it’s democracy and it cannot be changed. There will be ups, there will be downs but it will smooth out. If this was the other way round, and Leave were complaining about all of the above, you would be saying the exact same thing.

    We have to adjust and we have over 24 months to do it, it’s not all doom and gloom.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Has ANYBODY considered that this referendum and the deadline for registering to vote were put in the middle of exam period for anyone doing A-levels, or in their 1st, 2nd or 3rd year at university. And then wonder why not more young people voted?

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  4. Can we please stick to debating considered opinions raised by Eleanor and others, instead of just slagging each other off?

    Anyway, Hi Eleanor… You’re right to be angry. Stay angry, stay motivated!

    We should all be doing our utmost to turn this around. I’m all for the democratic process, but what we saw last Thursday was not real democracy; it was the result of a campaign based on lies and deceit, and the fact that Rupert Murdoch’s media empire was behind the ‘leave’ camp all the way.

    It was also a campaign designed to trigger knee-jerk responses from large sections of the public. Not too far removed from the Donald Trump campaign in America where he tells everyone that the huge and complex problems which face the nation, as well as the planet, could all be solved if we kick out Johnny foreigner. Sadly, it seems that there are enough gullible people to make this tactic work. I’m sure Trump is encouraged by the UK vote.

    ‘Stay’ supporters included the Pope, the Archbishop of Canterbury, Stephen Hawking, Cameron, Corbin, Obama, and just about every European leader. On the other hand the ‘leavers’ include Nigel Farage, Michael Gove, Rupert Murdoch, David Icke and opportunists like Boris Johnson. I think if I found myself sharing philosophies with this group, it would be time to sit down and reflect…. then probably volunteer for a lobotomy.

    I believe that already, we’ve seen enough of the consequences of the referendum:-

    • Stock market crash

    • Sterling crash

    • Looming constitutional crisis

    • Possible end to the 300 year old union that is Great Britain

    • Possible disintegration of the EU

    • A ‘thumbs-up’ from Marine le Pen and just about every other European fascist leader

    • A very uncertain economic future for the country.

    So now that the nation is (slightly) more enlightened, I’ve got a feeling that if we had the referendum tomorrow, it would be more like 70/30 to ‘stay’.

    I maintain that there were too many dirty tricks and too many vested interests for the result to be a true reflection of ‘the will of the people’. It is selling the nation short and pushing us into a whole area of uncertainty. It’s difficult to see a good outcome for the nation, for most demographic groups, or even for (most) individuals.

    I envy people who can be philosophical about this, but I believe the outcome of this referendum was skewed by powerful factions, and I think the stakes are too high for this not to be challenged.

    Like many others, I don’t think this was an appropriate subject for a referendum, but now that we’ve done it and it’s a matter of record, I think we should press for a new referendum; this time based on facts, and not lies and distortions.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Excellent article with some disturbing points! I am from Australia and am totally gobsmacked to be sitting here watching what is going on over there as a result of weak leadership and lies. When I first heard the news I was saddened by the fact that – to me – this vote to leave the EU was so racist and saying to the world that “we are against globalisation – we are not going to be neighbourly! No more migrants!” What a shame that this message is so blatantly clear to so many people from other countries. A sad day indeed. I am 62 – so a baby boomer – but, had I been in England, I would have voted to stay! Yes, stay angry Eleanor and so pleased to see that your article provoked this very informative thought-provoking article from you as well, Rodney. I sincerely hope that a referendum can right this wrong. Keep up the good fight!!

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      1. Hypocrisy Georgie – CHRISTMAS ISLAND AND THE OTHER DETENTION CENTRES RING A BELL? in your words “.was so racist and saying to the world that “we are against globalisation – we are not going to be neighbourly! No more migrants!” What a shame that this message is so blatantly clear to so many people from other countries”….. . Yes Eleanor stay angry, agreed Britain or is it England should have voted to remain. Voter apathy and leave voters (I would suggest most having not even left the island or used their EU passport) won the referendum. You can blame Blair and Bush for the current migrant crisis in Europe, they certainly unearthed a weapon of mass destruction!!

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    2. I can’t see a second referendum unfortunately. Therefore I think we need to be much more politically aware and ensure the future serves the many and not the few.

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      1. Yes second referendum is out of sight, but continuous disapproval and uncertainty can cause parliament to think again before triggering article 50 and a vote of no coincidence of Brexity can be initiated by parliament stopping this foolish thinking and re engagement with EU on stay in terms (Sensible )

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  5. Haha! Well said. Exasperating for sure. Although re the PM, if you look at all the player on the board and the goings on….resigning and stepping down in October is part of his plan B. Lird Hill resigning when he did is not unolanned either. Watch the next few weeks unfold and it will become clear. Politics and chess. Not disimilar. And I live number 5!! Laughed until my belly hurt. ☺ Keep on trucking. X

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  6. Well myself and many others are happy, because we recognize that nothing else is as important as democracy. As having accountable politicians who we can vote in and out of power.. Just think of this, at least in the next election you will have a vote over who rules you and that vote will count. Losing this vote, (yes angry as you are we all know), actually means that the other votes you have to make in your lifetime will actually count for something, which they sure as Sherlock wouldn’t have in an every centralized EU. How special is that? That is what many Brexit supporters voted for and one day I hope that you will realize the magnitude and bravery of their actions. They weren’t ignorant of the fall out, they just understood that democracy is worth almost any price, one day when you grow up you might recognize the truth in that.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. What democracy? How does your vote count? If you are one of the 49% in your constituency who vote not for the winning MP, your voice is COMPLETELY USELESS and will not be listened to by anyone, EU or no EU.

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      1. Manipulating people to gain their vote, not that I agree with that sentiment, is a whole lot better than not giving people a vote at all. Far better than having a system where the politicians are immune to public opinion, where they have the mandate to do whatever they wish. Who would vote for a system which moves parliament from Brussels to Strasbourg and back for no good reason and at huge expense? You voted against that? Were you even asked your opinion about such waste? I am very happy that the UK is out of Federation Europe, and in time a lot more people will be happy about it too. You and your ilk are not going to give away the freedoms and rights that my ancestors fought and died for so that you can have cheap holidays and duty free fags.. There is no reason whatsoever that the UK cannot be a world power freed from the shackles of a lumbering bureaucratic, anti-democratic, self appointed and self opinionated EU. And you and your kind have no right to vilify and demean those who voted differently to you.

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      2. If you can come up with a better system I am sure that we would all be keen to hear it. However, let me assure you that the EU bureaucracy isn’t it.. Proportional representation isn’t it either. So your compatriots lost the vote. Booo F@#$%ing hooo, that is democracy in action so leave aside the whingeing and look for a way to make progress.

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    2. Wow! How patronising.
      Where’s the democracy in manipulating people to gain their vote?
      If you’re so keen on being so Little Britain you need to spell in British English not American English

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    3. The EU is and always will be more democratic than the UK. And how exactly have we improved democracy when we now have a choice between losing more than 1/5 of the county’s income at minimum, or continuing to accept all EU laws, still paying 350 million and no longer having ANY say in those laws and no longer any veto?

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  7. As one of the “baby boomers” you referred to I can only apologise for what our generation has done to you, with so many voting on the side of the leave campaign. 73% of those in the 18-24 age group voted to stay, while 63% of the 60+ age group voted to leave. Somewhere in the middle, among those aged about 40, was the 50:50 point.

    Both sides campaigned about the future of Britain, but what is the future if it isn’t our young people? In 30 years time it will be those 18-24 year olds who will be running our businesses and running our country – assuming we still have just one country and not 3 joined together bits of land under 3 different governments. If all goes well, then those people will be OK, but if it goes badly those people will be entitled to ask their grand parents “why did you do this to us?” I hope that we can come up with a better answer than the Leave campaign gave us before the referendum.

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    1. The thing about being old is that nobody chooses it. It happens to anybody who survives long enough. Being old means that you have a different set of anxieties and nostalgias than younger people, and that set is different from people who are old enough to have died.
      It’s not a religion or politics, it’s what WILL come to all. Be a little generous.We have all been 20, but for me at least that was 50 years ago.

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  8. I am 60 years old and voted to remain in the EU and I know lots of my friends did the same. I think David Cameron should be MADE to stay on as Prime Minister. He is the one to blame for this farce, he should never have called a referendum.He has now thrown his toys out of the pram and left the likes of buffoon Boris to mop up the mess.I too am angry and have wondered since Friday, what I can do.I agree with all you say but I don’t think blaming a particular age group for voting,or not voting helps. I don’ t think for one nanosecond David Cameron or Boris Johnson thought this would happen and quite frankly now it has,I don’t think they care.

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  9. I totally agree with you, so so fed up with the way the referendum was conducted.my children (in their 30s ) are devastated as are all their friends .we must do something . I’m in my sixties where are all our older statesmen ,Shirley Williams Kinnocks Hesletine ,Major Ken Clark …..so many of my friends are prepared to march petition write letters whatever , anything that can reverse this result and get back to an equilibrium .There is a generation and their children who will be forever confused angry and discontent .

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  10. Stupid cow – and just how old are you dear? Do you realise that you include your own parents and grandparents in your disgraceful remarks about older people. And do you also realise that those same older people were actually around in 1973 when this disaster happened and they were given no choice about joining the EEC (Europe’s Economic Catastrophe). It is those older people who remember what GREAT Britain was like pre-Europe, and it was a damn sight better place than it is now. You are wet behind the ears and you have believed the panic mongers, why don’t you just calm down, go and play a bit more Candy Crush on your designer phone, and wait to see what happens instead of spouting drivel without a shred of evidence and no basis in fact,

    Liked by 1 person

    1. That’s a bilious reply. I am of that older generation and my life was unremittingly difficult until my mid-twenties.

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    2. That’s a pretty offensive post Ron… short on facts and long on condescension.

      I don’t where you lived in 1973, or whether you’re looking back through rose-coloured glasses. I was there and I remember that everyone used to make smug comments about other nations industries… cars, aircraft, shipbuilding, etc., and then stood passively around whilst our own industries self-destructed with strikes, under-investment, poor-management. Most of these nations industries outlasted ours.

      Britain was already living on past glories so don’t blame the EEC.

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    3. Ron your comments are disgraceful, judgemental and misogynist. If you actually read the article you’d see the facts but I’m guessing you can’t see them behind the big old red bus – shame on you for bringing personal attacks into the frame.

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    4. I remember the UK before it joined the EU. It was grey, riven with strikes, still impoverished from WWII. I remember my parents struggling to earn enough to support our family. It was no golden age, and I expect the next 20 years will be desperate for our children and grandchildren.

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      1. I am 86 and I voted Remain. We are now in a different world. We are more global and less insular. Perhaps there is a case for taking the right to vote from people over 80 and leave decisions to the young who will be affected by the results of any vote. A bit extreme but worth thinking about.

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    5. Ron, in 1973 Britain was in a bad way. Electricity strikes, blackouts, high prices. People worked in dangerous, unhealty jobs. You had to wait ages in Casualty (A&E now). If you had cancer you were doomed. Hardly any motorways. A new car was out of most people’s reach, Food was expensive. Restaurants were expensive poor quality and infrequent. Not many Brits could afford a holiday abroad and a colour TV cost a fortune for 3 channels! Cops used to routinely beat suspects up, drink driving was absolutely rife, clothes were expensive, It was not done to pour abuse on someone you disagreed with.

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  11. Where on that bus does it say 350m to the nhs. It says let’s fund then nhs instead, you lost get over it. You’re like a child not getting her own way. If it was the other way around people would have said we tried we failed let’s get on with this. You are the worst kind of person…

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    1. If it had been the other way round, Mr Fromage had already suggested there should be another referendum – So was he being childish? Bus slogan very carefully implies that £350m would be available to spend on the NHS. Well, I’m not a child; I’m a grandfather who’s unimpressed by a) People who avoid specific criticism by being unwarrantably patronising b) resort to outright degradation when they are unable to string any sort of coherent argument together.

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  12. As a friend of mine said democracy hurts and we all railed against the old people, though as many of us are 50 plus we probably are the old people but we voted to remain. Believing in democracy does not mean that one does not protest at decisions made by the majority if you believe these decisions are wrong. Working to convince people that your views are valid is part of the democratic process and yes if you passionately believe that we should remain in the EU you should not shut up about It, however insulting those with different views does not contribute to a thoughtful debate and reduces one to the level of so.e politicians.

    Referendums that are on very important issues often need a second run, there is a history of second referendums on Europe where the population change their minds upon due consideration and yes I believe this issue is important enough to have a second referendum. Unless the vote goes over 60% for remaining we should honour the first vote.

    What we have heard from politicians since the result is don’t worry nothing will change. So why did we vote to leave, just wanted to take the opportunity to wipe billions off the economy. Everyone is saying that we will still have free movement so if immigration was your issue you are no better off, indeed you had better hope that the migrant crisis is sorted out before we lose our border controls in France and we have to deal with the unfortunate of the world turning up on our shores. The EU has saved us from that.
    Personally I want to remain not only for the economic arguments but more because I believe that we cannot go backwards and countries joining together for their common good is better than working alone for the individual benefit.

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  13. Well said Eleanor.

    On point 6 we should not forget that only 37% of the electorate voted to leave. So it would be a travesty of democracy if this result was acted upon in parliament.

    Fortunately the referendum is just advisory and has to be ratified in parliament where the majority of MPs want to remain. Our system is a representative democracy after all and a rejection of the referendum would be a great demonstration of the democratic sovereignty which the leave campaign seemed to hold so dear.

    On the other hand if the MPs do support this result we should demand that we hold on to our rights by signing up for Dual EU UK citizenship, http://dualcitizen.eu/.

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  14. I believe in democracy until it is not my opinion that wins and then I will throw a tantrum and cry all over the internet… that deals with point 1 now to the others 2. yes the whole thing was a pack of lies from both sides but giving us this referendum was the ONLY truth that came out of camerons mouth from 2 sets of election promises 3. the ONLY peice of information both sides agree on is that it costs us 26 billion a year to be members and we are the 2nd largest contributor to the EU coffers and no way are we the 2nd largest country 4. it is not xenophobic or rascist but the country and its infrastructure cannot cope with more immigration at the levels the EU are dictating (and this is a country built on immigration) 5. who gives a shit what trump says he is a braindead moron much like obama 6.52% IS a majority even someone as thick as you can work that out but then please explain to me how the 26% who voted for cameron is a majority? 7. win or lose he had to step down thank god he had split his party in half and no way could he continue 8..they have voted once to stay and they cant afford to leave no matter what sturgeon says thanks to us they get £800 per head more than any other part of the uk they get free prescriptions and free university education all of which we pay for and in all fairness scotland is no great loss anyway she keeps quoting that 62% of scots who voted voted to remain but fails to state that only 30% of scots actually bothered to vote anyway so they have no way of knowing what the result would be if they held it again. 9..who says ??? most people i have spoken to do not regret leaving in fact some who voted to remain are regretting they ever considered it 10.. THIS IS WHAT DEMOCRACY IS WE ALL KNEW WHAT WE WERE VOTING ON UNLESS WE WERE TOTALLY THICK WHICH YOU SEEM TO BE SAYING BY THIS STATEMENT YOU SEEM TO BE SAYING THAT THE PUBLIC ARE NOT CAPABLE OF DECIDING WHAT THEY WANT…..

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    1. Actually Ian Arthurs only 84.6% of the Scottish electorate bothered to vote, clearly you’re not bothered about facts, trotting out the old Scotland gets more per head line and they get all this free stuff that we pay for (yawn). Now that Scotland has its own parliament they actually get to decide how they spend their budget including the Council Tax collected (which by the way is the equivalent of 3 months of my London council tax plus my water bill each month) yes really! The Scots have a more socialist outlook than England and therefore choose to allocate more budget to things like health and education, they believe in looking after the elderly and the young hence why you get free prescriptions and free education. As for leaving the UK it’s a certainty, when not one single voting district voted to leave therefore yet again the will of the English is being imposed on the Scots, why would or should they stay in the UK when a whole nations vote counts for nothing?

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    2. “The first priority of the Communist party and of Xi Jinping is the perpetuation of the Communist party’s rule in China. They are fundamentally anti-democratic … And what better illustration of how democracy doesn’t work than to have the oldest, most respected democracy – through a democratic process – get itself into arguably, potentially the biggest mess that the UK has self-generated since the second world war? It is a gift.”

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  15. Bravo:) I turned 65 yesterday and I’m angry as hell! Angry that my generation and older have stuffed young people on tuition fees,stuffed young people on house prices and are now stuffing them on their future prospects.I’m angry because coming from a working class East Lancashire mill town originally, those people have been conned for various reasons by scheming politicians to vote against their own interests.I’m angry that this stupid Referendum happened when we appoint politicians to make complex political decisions for us.Next time Ill call a plumber to fix my medical problems! And I’m angry that a simple majority of a tiny percent can overturn what we have had for 40 years,when we would demand more for a vote on smoking cigarettes in public. But most of all I am angry that the country I grew up in after WW2,once a tolerant,welcoming and outgoing place has turned its back on our nearest neighbours and succumbed to the lies of bigots and xenophobes,who it has to be said have been emboldened with this result.The situation is complex Peoples reasons for voting out are complex.They are not all racists,they have just been lied too, too many times and they are fearful.They and the rest of us deserve more.Honest politicians,honest answers,and honest Government. I want my country back!

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    1. You are dead right. I wish I had said that. The east Lancs mill town I came from has been badly let down by successive governments who have looked the other way as people’s genuine concerns were ignored and bigotry took the place of tolerance. Remember Gordon Brown’s dismissal of the “bigotted woman” in Rochdale ? It’s as if she had no right to be anxious about the changes she could not understand in her community .

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  16. A lot of the younger generation that are posting appear to be gobby twats that like the sound of their own voice.

    I am 60. (I’m actually not sure what a baby boomer is) I voted out (nothing to do with immigration before you start) but I certainly didn’t think “hey I’ve not got long to live, fuck them young geezers” The fact is the markets will recover, the pound will hold it’s own, there will be growth and opportunities outside the EU. I voted out because the EU is becoming one giant bureaucratic monster, responsible to no one with leaders that are busy feathering their own nest and looking after their own futures. You younger people are perhaps a little afraid of the unknown. You have only ever known Europe with it’s big comfort blanket but I can assure you there is nothing under the bed and no need to be afraid of the dark. Not only can we stand alone as a nation, we can show Europe the way. Once we do have independence we will have the power to elect and vote out any government that is not meeting the needs of the nation. As for employment rights , maternity leave, working wage and all that stuff; the UK is actually ahead of the game, we offer better than Europe on all these things. Trade will not only continue, it will grow as we will retain the trading we have with Europe whilst being able to go out and strike whatever agreements we are able worldwide. We will still be part of NATO, and that is the army that protects Europe (and the world actually) from war, there is no army of Europe (though I believe that was in the plan going forward) And anyway, we have managed to kill our youth by looking further afield for our battles; Falklands, Afghanistan, Syria.

    Then there’s Scotland and the various threats to seek independence from England and the desire to stay in Europe. Hmmm how will that work exactly? Scotland would have to meet all the requirements to enter the EU. They would have no proven independent financial standing, stable democracy or rule of law so that could take some time. And what id England left the EU but the EU did not accept Scotland. What would happen then? And what if we did throw a curve ball and didn’t leave the EU but the EU didn’t accept Scotland!? complicated hey.

    I think the whole thing has really highlighted the phoniness and spin of our current political parties. (all of them) and hopefully this has awakened a realisation amongst electorate of all ages that they have a voice. Throughout the last few decades the response to local and general elections the turn out has been pathetic, and mainly amongst the young. Perhaps now they will show some interest and step up to the mark. Rather than rob our younger generation of anything I think we have done them a favour, just n the nick of time. If this had gone on any longer the younger generation would have been totally unable to stand on their own two feet and make any kind of decision, they would have thought decision had to go by a comittee and have no chance whatsoever upsetting anyone. Sorry guys, hey dammit. I’ll call you dudes cos you is all young right, but that’s not the way it works. Welcome to the real world, get some backbone and make this world a better place by using you voice, your votes, and voicing your opinions.

    (shit I wrote all that and never even got onto immigration……….. thats because it’s a fucking big red herring trotted out by both leave and remain camps)

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    1. As an Aussie, it’s really interesting to read these different posts to try to understand what really happened! We are getting so many conflicting reports – but I guess you are too, hence the problem! One thing though that really comes across loud and clear is that youth will always look for someone to blame when things don’t go their way – hence, blame us older generation! To me, it just rolls off like water off a duck’s back! Yes, Chris, I agree with your comment about using your voice and your vote to make this world a better place! The younger generation need to educate themselves on politics and become well-informed voters and understand the true meaning of democracy. However, having said that, keep your anger, younger generation, as it might just point you in the right direction of actually caring about your vote and the consequences which comes from it. It all goes back to education!

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    2. Chris Doyle at 60 years old, yours is the first post I’ve read here to use foul language presumably because you’re arguments don’t really stack up.
      Georgie Hawkins FYI young people in the country are more involved than they’ve ever been in politics. The problem here is a whole section of the population of all ages that were traditionally non- voters were whipped up by scaremongering propaganda so voted to leave

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      1. You’ve not read all the posts then. My language was chosen as I was angry too after reading the original post and my attitude was driven by the writers choice of words stating that the older generation had fucked them over and going on to use the term fuckwits. What I wrote was true though, maybe not of this writer but the younger posted in general on the various social media. Most of the 18 – 24 age group would be much more concerned if Facebook went down than the prim e minister stepping down. The author too is probably loving the opportunity to acquire all this internet fame and get her read count up too but hey ho.

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  17. Well that was worthwhile expression of opinion. You only have to read the replies to see how destructive anger is! Bravo you well educated individual on such a successful post!!!!!! Clearly you thought through what such a post would really achieve!!!

    Yes of course that was sarcasm!

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  18. This argument is silly! I am 53 years old and have lived about 80% of my life in a country as a member of the the EU that I did not vote for. My elders made that decision for me. The above chart shows I will now live less time out than I did in! I am not saying whether I voted in or out but I am not moaning about either time of my life, I am just pleased that we have the freedom to vote.

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  19. One of the Brexit arguments was that people were fed up with experts and their ” tow the line” pontifications. Every common sense reason given for staying was shouted down as “experts have got it wrong so often, they are wrong again”.And every crackpot theory about how the Sun will shine all day after Brexit was supported by the line “The experts are wrong. They don’t know. Trust us”
    Seems the experts were right.
    But its OK. The rich will continue to get richer, but faster. And the poor will continue to get poorer. But faster. Brexit is just supercharged Toryism.

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    1. i am 62 years old have seen the common market then the ECC then the EU which has got bigger over the years keeping the rich people richer and the poor poorer.
      over the years I cannot see anything the EU has done for this country.
      but believing you voted remain means you would rather live in a dictatorship than have your freedom.
      five presidents that run the EU have never been voted in by any country but you are willing to let them tell how to run our country.

      two world wars were fought for this country the second one against Germany to keep our freedom but now the germans are one of those in charge and you want them to rule us.

      all I will say is get a life and accept that we will be free from the EU

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      1. But we won’t be “free” from anything. Brexit means logically that the EU have to make an example of us to prevent further disintegration of the union. This means that in order for us to gain access to their market, we have to accept whatever terms the EU decide . We will not walk away from our main trading partner (money is still too important) so in all likelihood we will accept whatever they tell us.
        Before Brexit, we had a voice at the EU table with a veto on many aspects. In general, we were in agreement with over 80% of legislation that went through the EU parliament. That’s pretty good going for a club with 27 other interests.
        The problem with your worldview is that you misunderstand European cooperation and compromise as being dictated to, or ruled. That is not how politics work in the modern, post colonial era.
        No, we don’t vote directly for the president, but that’s irrelevant. The president is a figurehead/ ceremonial role and holds no real power. We do (did) vote for MEP s and our own politicians who sit in the council of ministers. This is where the power resides and therefore it was democratic.

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      2. The figure is circa 50 cases where the UK were voted down compared to 2,500 when we approved the law change. That’s 2% folks. That does include some attempts to water down working conditions or other socially valuable laws that were in fact in the interests of the population.

        Most ashamed that people voted out of a tabloid caricature of the EC, not the real thing…

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  20. The day we all (those who were registered to vote) became a “politician for the Day” and we democratically blew it!”
    I would advocate that Brexit is “not in the United Kingdoms interest” and this particular EU referendum whilst interesting is still too close to call – for instance Glastonbury with over 120,000 people involved and a whole army of football supporters over in France – how many failed to register a postal preference beforehand , 16- 17 year olds even not able to vote on their own future direction as Uk citizens, also Brits based abroad in particular working & living within the Eu – have they not go a vested interest in the health, wealth & security of the home country? We now have the possible break up of the Union with sizeable population of involuntary passengers in Scotland, N Ireland and even Gibraltar on a bus out of one of the largest trading blocks in the world – which has actually achieved it’s main aim of peace and stability. Yes those that were able to vote Remain or Leave so we all became “Politicians for a Day on 23rd June – but as we know put 33,577,342 politicians in one room and you will not necessarily get a pleasant and coherent debate and final result on which to base your own future, the future of others, let alone those other generations that will follow and be most impacted by that day of being a politician. And what of those people – let’s call them hard working contributors to GB PLC – why have they not got an ability to contribute to this democratic process at all – I worked with a man from Spain in the early 1970’s he taught me how to really look after the elderly – Carlos was his name (he came to the UK with his wife to get away from the dictatorship that was General Franco – who used to decimate (kill 1 in 10 by throwing them off cliffs) every villager on the Andalucian coast just to spread fear and display his ultimate power over their lives to the local population – and I even read that there are some who were voting in protest of the current Government’s home record and now asking to change their votes as they are now realising what Brexit will mean for them and their families. Also google analytics is saying after the vote that people were actively searching for what the actually EU does……so were we as “politicians for day” that well informed and fully briefed on what was at stake – probably not………like many I have been told this weekend by people with smiling faces -oh it will be ok why not just try it out for a change -oh were it that simple and let’s face it just one “dirty bomb” getting through will change things forever wherever it gets let off and it’s only through international Cooperation and sharing information about terrorism that can stop that happening but for how long?

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    1. It is time for everyone to stop moaning build a bridge and get over it I am a Brit living in Ireland and you don’t know how much the EU has screwed Ireland over I voted leave and this will cost me my job in Ireland maybe but I love Britain too the EU is all about the cash not the people

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  21. Well said. There are so many blogs like your doing the rounds at the moment. I feel exactly the same as you about this.

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  22. An interesting rant.

    On the one hand much of it is misinformed “fact-speak” and on the other, hateful nonesense

    If only Democracy was ever neat and tidy, providing exactly what everyone wants.

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  23. Bravo to all points raised!
    Is this country working forward to the next evolutionary step or hoping to be able to take a backwards turn to ‘some good old days’ that are in the past and never can and will be anymore?
    I don’t think that people were really aware about all consequences that this result will have and what it will take and mean to pull through now.
    The good news is that it all is in its way into the light now, that what was under the surface (the 80% of the iceberg) are coming into the open. Hm, I wonder what more will come into the light now….?
    Let’s stay curious!

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  24. A small correction needed here – the women of the UK are not yours, You need to be aware of that. And one final point, the UK will never be beautiful so long as you and anyone like you exists in it.

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  25. I have always been grateful to the people of this country who made it possible for me to have a say in how the country is run and consequently how it affects it’s people, myself and my family included. I have not squandered the voting rights that were hard fought for me and have always voted. But I fully understand however that in a democracy I have to concede to the majority vote even if I disagreed with it. Since I became eligible to vote 50 years ago there have been many occasions when the majority vote went against me but I had my private winge and got on with it. I am an educated person fully capable of listening to arguments and making up my own mind thank you, and I do so with a lifetime of experience of having to listen to many, many, politicians, researching and finding out facts and statistics for myself.
    All I can say is that if you wish to be Europeans more than you want to be British, if you want to disregard the Democracy of this country that was so hard fought for, if you do not have the will, the stamina or the backbone to move forward but can only exist by verbally abusing older people – then the answer is simple, go and live in Europe – please!

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  26. You say it was the old people who voted out, but I thought it was the black people? It seems I was wrong, so we will have to lynch some old people instead.

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  27. You have strong support from Poland, we do not agree with eu politics but it doesnt mean we have to leave. In such times we should take care about it. For me personally the result of referendum in UK was terrible and we have lost an older brother in Europe which we loved and wanted to follow. We need new EU with old UK.
    \

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  28. Get back to your Xbox, Netflix and keyboard or whatever it was you were doing when you should have been voting. 18-24 year olds couldn’t be bothered to vote, then complain that the oldies voted the wrong way. Yep, makes me angry too.

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  29. you can be angry, and shout and never shut up, but it is too late. Those who take referendums lightly should be aware of the consequences when it is the time for it, not crying over spilled milk. Now it is time to see what can be done to minimise the consequences.

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  30. What a load of rubbish! Grow up, it doesn’t matter who voted for what, we have a democracy and that is exactly what happens. Stop throwing your toys out of the pram because you lost. People like you make me worry for our country when you think that a democratically arrived at vote is something you want overturned…….like a dictator would!

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  31. I voted”out” and I’m glad we won. However, had we lost I would have accepted the will of the people and worked towards making our country as GREAT as it always has been, without throwing my rattle out of the pram. But maybe that’s because I’m a baby boomer.

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  32. Your anger is definitely being heard. I was randomly searching the most popular posts on wordpress and yours came right up!

    As someone that writes on Theology and Volunteering this is way out of my area of expertise but all I can hope is that the people of the UK come out of this without job losses and a lot of pain to families.

    My mother is from the UK and we still have family there. It makes me worried but I know the people of the UK are some of the most wonderful people you can know. They will make things work 🙂

    As someone living in Canada it is definitely something we are watching with curious eyes. There are big changes happening around the world and some themes that are very important to watch.

    Great post! I think a lot of what your saying is being heard.

    – TSP

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  33. Yesterday at a meeting of EU ministers.
    1. For us to export to the EU we must open our borders same as Switzerland & Denmark who are not members.
    2. French Mayor of Calais tells us to remover the 300 British Customs Officers from France and build a camp in Folkstone for the 8,000 migrants in Calais and Dunkirk.

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    1. You mean Switzerland and Norway. Denmark is a member of the EU but generally they do have to agree to the free movement of people to access the single market.

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  34. Pro české čtenáře:

    1. Nenávist ke starým lidem a bagatelizace faktu, že většinu mladých to nezajímalo a nevolila.

    2. Manipulace, Farage nic takového nesliboval, v daném pořadu nesouhlasil s tím, jak by ušetřené peníze použila konkurenční kampaň, na které se nepodílel.

    3. Subjektivní interpretace a obecné rovině problém všech voleb, to platí i volbě poslanců, senátorů, místních referendech, otázce, zda kapitalismus či komunismus, atd.

    4. Crying racism.

    5. Legitimní gratulace.

    6. Oproti rakouským prezidentským volbách či floridskému počítání hlasů pro Bushe určitě. Je to otázka míry a srovnání.

    7. Představa, že politici, kteří jsou z rozdílných důvodů proti členství v EU a politici, kteří z rozdílných důvodů podporovali setrvání a jsou různě smířeni s výsledkem referenda, budou mít najednou společný plán, je značně naivní.

    8. Může, ale nedávno se rozhodlo setrvat. Navzdory podpoře členství EU ze strany takřka všech hlavních politiků tam bylo pro vystoupení nějaký 35% voličů, volební účast byla oproti Anglii a Walesu nízká a v řadě obvodů to bylo dokonce dost těsné.

    9. Mediální fámy založené na medializaci pár individuálních případů a průzkumu na úrovni těch, které předpovídaly jasné vítězství Remain. Ve skutečnosti se drtivá většina voličů pro Leave (i Remain) stojí za svým. Některé zprávy jsou tak na úrovni http://filipfuchs.blog.idnes.cz/blog.aspx?c=53168110

    10. Hoax. http://www.ibtimes.com/no-britons-were-not-frantically-googling-what-eu-hours-after-brexit-vote-2387205

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